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Your phone is about to stop being yours

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#61

Post by criddell »

NDlurker wrote: post #30

>Android's openness was never just a feature. It was the promise that distinguished it from iPhone. Millions chose Android for exactly that reason. Google is now revoking that promise unilaterally, on devices already in people's pockets, because they've decided they have enough market dominance and regulatory capture to get away with it. This is why I've stuck with Android for the past 15 years.

For you, is the openness of Android appealing as a matter of principle or does it enable you to do things you couldn't otherwise do?

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#62

Post by rcxdude »

gruez wrote: post #42
rcxdude wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obvious to me that this will help much with scamming. Especially when it affects safer app repositories like F-droid more than the cesspit that is the official Play store.

>It's not obvious to me that this will help much with scamming. Because as a reader to this forum, you're probably more tech savvy that the average person. Moreover this type of scam seems to be more common in Asia than the West, see: https://cdn.economistdatateam.com/videos/cyber-scams/fake-vi... https://www.economist.com/interactive/asia/2026/04/10/scam-i... They convince users to download a "government app", grant…

I'm aware of the way the scams work. I'm also aware that scammers tend to be much more motivated to jump through hoops that are put in front them (more so than legitimate users!). Scammers can also talk people through many, many warning signs.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#63

Post by zb3 »

phreack wrote: post #40
smalltorch wrote: post #2

The opt out is graphene os yeah?

Not much, as it only works on very few high end phones not sold in most countries. Hopefully their Motorola partnership will expand its availability but I'm not confident that'll happen anytime soon.

Sadly forget about it - GrapheneOS will only work on Motorola __flagship__ devices, and most of their budget phones are not even made by Motorola, but rather by the odm such as Tinno, where it's not even possible to unlock the bootloader without exploits.

GrapheneOS will sadly stay unaffordable for many.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#64

Post by rcxdude »

selectively wrote: post #59
rcxdude wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they do something google doesn't like, or trip one of their many automated systems that ban them without recourse. Or they are compelled to revoke a key by a government.

Revocations are for apps being malware and nothing else, much like macOS Gatekeeper (Apple doesn't even revoke certs used by Warez groups to sign cracked apps). Automated bans can be an issue, but that's an edge case. Google already had the functionality to 'revoke' an app if ordered to do so by a legal authority. It is much more important to make a real world attack - something that is draining wallets of ordinary p…

I can't trust Google will keep to that, sorry. Nor can I accept harms being twisted into a further centralised accumulation of power (especially when Google, with all their resources, could likely do much more to prevent these scams than grabbing that power for themselves)

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#65

Post by kodablah »

TGower wrote: post #52

This is a wild misrepresentation of the situation. Saying there is no opt-out is just false, they even provide the information on how users can opt-out. The "mandatory 24 hour cooling-off period" is also misleading, it's easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB.

> Saying there is no opt-out is just false

I can't see where one can opt-out of this new behavior and into the existing behavior, only a description of the new behavior's bypass (which is not the same thing at all)

> easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB

I don't think this is a reasonable use of the term "easy". I should be able to give my non-technical friend an apk and they can use it right then, with the one "are you very sure" screen.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#66

Post by wstrange »

jjgreen wrote: post #5
bitpush wrote: post #3

Isnt the title a bit dramatic? I remember reading you can still install apps but you just need to click a few buttons.

From TFA: Delve into System Settings, find Developer Options Tap the build number seven times to enable Developer Mode Dismiss scare screens about coercion Enter your PIN Restart the device Wait 24 hours Come back, dismiss more scare screens Pick "allow temporarily" (7 days) or "allow indefinitely" Confirm, again, that you understand "the risks" Nine steps. A mandatory 24-hour cooling-off period. For installing softw…

To be fair, that's a one time process. You do not need to do that for every app you want to sideload.

The malware issue that the flow is designed to mitigate is a very real problem. Perhaps there is a better way, but it's not immediately clear what that is.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#67

Post by gdulli »

tjpnz wrote: post #43
NDlurker wrote: post #30

>Android's openness was never just a feature. It was the promise that distinguished it from iPhone. Millions chose Android for exactly that reason. Google is now revoking that promise unilaterally, on devices already in people's pockets, because they've decided they have enough market dominance and regulatory capture to get away with it. This is why I've stuck with Android for the past 15 years.

There's no point anymore.

There is still a point to making a choice. Inconvenient sideloading is still better than no sideloading.

In principle I could never reward Apple with my business for having originated and normalized this.

And pragmatically, I'd like to hold on for as long as I can to the next set of rights that Apple will take away five years before Google does.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#68

Post by pngwen »

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch.

You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that just makes it a crappier shadow of the vastly superior apple experience. And, as it turns out, ios is less restrictive than it was 18 years ago when I left them for Android!

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#69

Post by selectively »

striking wrote: post #56
TGower wrote: post #52

This is a wild misrepresentation of the situation. Saying there is no opt-out is just false, they even provide the information on how users can opt-out. The "mandatory 24 hour cooling-off period" is also misleading, it's easy to bypass the cooling-off period with ADB.

And I kind of buy the intent behind the cooling-off period anyway. IIRC it's to prevent people from being pressured into installing apps by scammers that could then take their phones hostage

Yes. That attack is a very real attack. The attacker gets access to the victim's phone and sideloads additional apps that appear to be the victim's legitimate banking application. The victim logs into it and sees a fake balance (as the app is fake). Pressure and other social engineering tactics are invoked and the scammer walks away with all of the victim's money.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#70

Post by selectively »

rcxdude wrote: post #62
gruez wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not obvious to me that this will help much with scamming. Because as a reader to this forum, you're probably more tech savvy that the average person. Moreover this type of scam seems to be more common in Asia than the West, see: https://cdn.economistdatateam.com/videos/cyber-scams/fake-vi... https://www.economist.com/interactive/asia/2026/04/10/scam-i... They convince users to download a "government app", grant…

I'm aware of the way the scams work. I'm also aware that scammers tend to be much more motivated to jump through hoops that are put in front them (more so than legitimate users!). Scammers can also talk people through many, many warning signs.

Scammers cannot talk people past a 24 hour wait. This attack is built upon pressure and operates at a scale that makes stealing many identies, building different-enough apps to avoid getting flagged by Google and signing them all non-viable.
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