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Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

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Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#91

Post by nradov »

_alternator_ wrote: post #57
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you are working with your government does not mean what you’re doing is necessarily immoral, either.

Correct. It depends. For example, it might depend on what the collaboration is likely to result in. Perhaps it would be more likely to be moral there were some boundaries in place, like "no mass domestic surveillance" or "no fully autonomous weapons". Because the US government currently believes it is legal to blow up civilian drug traffickers and wage war without congressional approval. So at some point, yes, collab…

The US military has deployed fully autonomous weapons since at least 1979, and potential adversaries are now doing the same. For better or worse that ship has sailed.

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#93

Post by Barrin92 »

ripvanwinkle wrote: post #90

One observation. Having your work being used by the govt in ways you disagree with feels similar to having your taxes used in ways you disagree. When you pay taxes you have no say in the bombs acquired with that and where they are dropped. The latter though doesn't seem to provoke the same push back

you answered your own implicit question. You have a choice who you sell your work to, you don't have a choice what your taxes do. Seems pretty straight forward why the former elicits more push back. The government forces you to pay taxes it doesn't force you to build them tools of surveillance or weapons.

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#94

Post by testfrequency »

site-packages1 wrote: post #72
testfrequency wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean no harm in saying what I said, I love my friends. I just can’t stomach the hypocrisy, it’s what the companies are preying and feeding off of. My friends are incredibly bright and good at what they do, it’s why they all have the roles they have. It makes me sad (and frustrated) knowing they are lured in by enough money dangling in front of them that makes them swallow their souls and identity, while fuelling th…

Do you suspect there is any chance they are fully independent adult human beings with full agency, who have looked at the pros and cons, and chosen to make the choices they did with clear eyes? Do you think there's any context that might square their choices with their own internal principles that don't make them hypocrites? I mean these as real questions. For "friends you love" you really seem to take a dim view of…

I’ll be honest and say it’s made me question and reposition some of my friendships with a number of these friends. Some joined well before we knew the fallout of how AI has affected and impacted society negatively, some have joined in recent years because they were offered 2x their currently already high comp package, and others will take any job they can get (who, admittedly, I judge far less as I know they are just needing to survive in a HCOL city).

My dim view is more on the AI companies being absurdly overvalued, with too much money to know what to do, which feeds downwards into compensation packages, which lure in “innocent” individuals who can’t say no. It’s not been a healthy market to be vulnerable in, most companies outside AI are just not getting the same funding or can compete at all - and it’s a shit storm.

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#95

Post by rob74 »

tyre wrote: post #85
orochimaaru wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it morally wrong for a US citizen to work with their government?

It’s not, but legal is not the same as ethical. For a long time, and probably still, it was legal for the US to torture enemy combatants. It was never ethical.

If you add to that the very broad limits of what the current administration considers "legal" (as in "pretty much anything we want to do"), I can understand feeling uneasy as a Google employee...

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#96

Post by kingleopold »

ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Who defines "lawful" if Google and the Pentagon disagree? > The classified deal apparently doesn’t allow Google to veto how the government will use its AI models. Seems concerning?

"who watches watchmen"

question as old as time itself

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#97

Post by pigpag »

orochimaaru wrote: post #39
anematode wrote: post #28

Who could have seen this one coming. From yesterday: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/google-ai-pentagon-classified-u... ("Hundreds of Google workers urge CEO to refuse classified AI work with Pentagon"). Any AI researcher who continues to work here is morally compromised.

Why is it morally wrong for a US citizen to work with their government?

Weird, why is it morally right for anyone to work with immoral organizations? -- That's what's in the focus, right?

Whether the current government is immoral, or if government can be philosophically immoral is up to debate. But your question sounds like a deflection to me.

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#98

Post by ceejayoz »

impulser_ wrote: post #66
ceejayoz wrote: post #3

Who defines "lawful" if Google and the Pentagon disagree? > The classified deal apparently doesn’t allow Google to veto how the government will use its AI models. Seems concerning?

No it doesn't at all. Private corporations shouldn't be telling the government what it can and can't do. That's the job of the people. You want private corporation overriding your vote?

> Private corporations shouldn't be telling the government what it can and can't do.

So Google can't tell the government it needs a warrant to perform a search? Google can't sue over something the government did?

It's Google's product they want to buy.

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#99

Post by [deleted] »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #36
anematode wrote: post #28

Who could have seen this one coming. From yesterday: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/google-ai-pentagon-classified-u... ("Hundreds of Google workers urge CEO to refuse classified AI work with Pentagon"). Any AI researcher who continues to work here is morally compromised.

Why is it morally compromising to work with the military of the country you live in?

[deleted]

Re: Google and Pentagon reportedly agree on deal for 'any lawful' use of AI

#100

Post by muvlon »

dmd wrote: post #22
f33d5173 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawful is presumably defined in the usual, common sense, ie we can do whatever the f we want until a court physically forces us not to.

And since the court has no way to physically force anything - that's the executive branch's function, (it's right there in the name) - lawful has no meaning whatsoever if it's the executive branch that wants to break the law.

And the Pentagon has historically gotten away with damn near everything even in the judicial branch by appealing to national security.
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