> the potential to create more greenhouse gases than the country of Morocco emitted in 2024. Does that comparison mean anything to anybody?
For some context, it's a country with 40 million people.
New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
21–30 of 147 posts
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#22The AI data center narrative is the perfect storm: First most of the data center build out is happening in areas that have had little other opportunity so local resistance is muted. Abilene, Texas is referenced and is the kind of place my grandfather would lovingly say is where you go to learn to be a “dirt farmer” Second, every environmentalist in the US is fighting 100 different battles with the most anti-regulatio…
Don’t forget environmentalists have been fighting against nuclear energy for decades. Update: Since I’m being downvoted I’m going to add a little sting: Good luck with your solar power web servers and skipping flights. Poor judgement really does have a price. It’s now inevitable that it’s going to get a bit warmer… everywhere. We’ll be lucky to hit Net Zero by 2100.
As they should, now that we have renewables and batteries.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#23Very quick Googling suggests Wired’s estimate would be ~1.9% of US emissions. AI data center investment is, at core, a bet on increasing the productivity of labor. That’s what businesses will pay for, and what will earn the big money. If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up a…
> If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up as a win for the climate I can promise you it won't happen in a million years. More productivity lends to more exploitation, because you can do more with the same unit of work, instead of getting the same result with less work.. Or at…
>More productivity lends to more exploitation, because you can do more with the same unit of work, instead of getting the same result with less work..
But per-capita greenhouse emissions have been falling in much of the developed world? And you can't really claim with a straight face that productivity has been dropping from 2000 to today.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?c...
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are supposing that with more productivity people will emit less carbon but there's no mechanism for that More productivity means the employers just demand more from the workers
Yeah, this seems like a textbook case where one could apply Jevons Paradox.
OK well now you have to look at changing the economy-wide energy mix or embracing de-growth. Switching data centers to 100% solar or nuclear or … solves Wired’s complaint but not this one.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#25Very quick Googling suggests Wired’s estimate would be ~1.9% of US emissions. AI data center investment is, at core, a bet on increasing the productivity of labor. That’s what businesses will pay for, and what will earn the big money. If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up a…
Problem is climate and ecosystem doesn’t give a fuck about some notional productivity or carbon intensity just the absolute number of pollution molecules going into the air
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#26The AI data center narrative is the perfect storm: First most of the data center build out is happening in areas that have had little other opportunity so local resistance is muted. Abilene, Texas is referenced and is the kind of place my grandfather would lovingly say is where you go to learn to be a “dirt farmer” Second, every environmentalist in the US is fighting 100 different battles with the most anti-regulatio…
Don’t forget environmentalists have been fighting against nuclear energy for decades. Update: Since I’m being downvoted I’m going to add a little sting: Good luck with your solar power web servers and skipping flights. Poor judgement really does have a price. It’s now inevitable that it’s going to get a bit warmer… everywhere. We’ll be lucky to hit Net Zero by 2100.
Because it’s a dangerous technology where profit over security can have severe consequences.
Not to mention the new risks now that drone wars are a thing. All those Chemical plants are already valuable target, no need to additional nuclear ones.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#27Very quick Googling suggests Wired’s estimate would be ~1.9% of US emissions. AI data center investment is, at core, a bet on increasing the productivity of labor. That’s what businesses will pay for, and what will earn the big money. If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up a…
The "climate" cares little about carbon intensity of labor or dollars. It cares about absolute tons of green house gases in the atmostphere and if you use more to produce more you still use more.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#28Very quick Googling suggests Wired’s estimate would be ~1.9% of US emissions. AI data center investment is, at core, a bet on increasing the productivity of labor. That’s what businesses will pay for, and what will earn the big money. If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up a…
You are supposing that with more productivity people will emit less carbon but there's no mechanism for that More productivity means the employers just demand more from the workers
"with increases in productivity, we'll all work 2-4 hours a week and maintain the same output!"
No, you'll work 40 hours and just do 10 times more in that time. Same thing.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don’t forget environmentalists have been fighting against nuclear energy for decades. Update: Since I’m being downvoted I’m going to add a little sting: Good luck with your solar power web servers and skipping flights. Poor judgement really does have a price. It’s now inevitable that it’s going to get a bit warmer… everywhere. We’ll be lucky to hit Net Zero by 2100.
Because it’s a dangerous technology where profit over security can have severe consequences. Not to mention the new risks now that drone wars are a thing. All those Chemical plants are already valuable target, no need to additional nuclear ones.
>Because it’s a dangerous technology where profit over security can have severe consequences.
Yeah it's far better to have power plants kill a steady stream of people, but in a banal way that's hard to attribute, like coal power plants causing lung cancer.
Re: New gas-powered data centers could emit more greenhouse gases than whole nations
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If US labor productivity rises by more than 2%—and implicit in the size of this bet is a guess much higher—US carbon intensity goes down correspondingly, and these data centers end up as a win for the climate I can promise you it won't happen in a million years. More productivity lends to more exploitation, because you can do more with the same unit of work, instead of getting the same result with less work.. Or at…
>More productivity lends to more exploitation, because you can do more with the same unit of work, instead of getting the same result with less work.. But per-capita greenhouse emissions have been falling in much of the developed world? And you can't really claim with a straight face that productivity has been dropping from 2000 to today. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita?c...
> But per-capita greenhouse emissions have been falling in much of the developed world?
Only by the deceptive accounting trick of not including the emissions associated with overseas production of the goods consumed by the "developed world".
If you include all the emissions that prop up the highest per capita consumption patterns on the planet then you see the highest per capita emissions attached to the highest consumers.