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Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

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Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#81

Post by ottah »

f6v wrote: post #45
semiquaver wrote: post #40

I find this post baffling. Would one normally demand angrily to find out whether someone used photoshop when making a product mockup? If not, why is this different? It only makes sense if you’ve made a political decision that anything associated with AI is bad, regardless of whether you would otherwise like it.

There're a strong disdain agains any AI among the artists. I've seen these kind of comments many times, like people getting upset someone uses AI-generated profile pic in Discord. I get that they're scared. They should be: it was difficult to make a living for many artists even before AI. The market was already oversaturated and they had to accept low-paying irregular jobs. But now there's literally no light in the e…

I'd say there's strong disdain from people who make a living producing art, but it's not nearly as universal with artists outside that group. I do resent people who have a monetary interest in an activity being presented as the only ones with a valid interest. I have seen more people becoming interested in personal creative expression since diffusion models, than I have ever seen before in my life, and that's a good thing.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#82

Post by Planktonne »

semiquaver wrote: post #78
Planktonne wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've misunderstood me. The Lord of the Rings has authenticity as one of its main themes. This is part of the work itself, not to do with its provenance.

What does it mean for a thing to be “authentic”? Tolkien hasn’t created anything since he passed away. I hear they used computers to some extent when making the lord of the rings movies, something Tolkien certainly would not have done. Should we thus criticize the movies on the basis of their authenticity?

Again, I think you've misread the parent comment here. The Lord of the Rings--the actual books, the content of the work--is partially about authenticity, in the same way that Spiderman is about power and responsibility.

I'm not talking about the provenance of the work, but the content of it.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#83

Post by bcjdjsndon »

Planktonne wrote: post #41
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But an AI can create that same authenticity, if it doesn't matter about the actual provenance then

We're still not talking about provenance. Where something comes from is not the same as what it is. The people who want LotR merchandise do so because they care about LotR.

> We're still not talking about provenance. Where something comes from is not the same as what it is.

Either define what you mean by authentic, or let us assume that it's a synonym for "something I like"

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#84

Post by bcjdjsndon »

boxed wrote: post #49
Kye wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the names on the map. You don't need to be a LOTR superfan to tell something is off.

So it's not actually about AI at all? It's about it being incorrect?

The telly tale flip flopping of someone driven by emotion not logic

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#85

Post by bcjdjsndon »

nkrisc wrote: post #43
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #22

If you can't even tell it's AI and need to be told... then what's the problem? Personal preference? It's like only enjoying paintings if the artist used horse hair and horse hair alone for their paintbrush.... A very arbitrary constraint

Because the existing cultural understanding of art is that someone took the time to create what you’re experiencing. AI generated “art” subverts that expectation. It feels deceptive. Honestly it reminds of Duchamp’s Fountain and similar works, which some people hated for more or less the same reason. I am not equating AI slop with Marcel Duchamp, however. His work and what he did was very much intentional to evoke th…

>Because the existing cultural understanding of art is that someone took the time to create what you’re experiencing. AI generated “art” subverts that expectation

And? I don't care. Is the art good or not? I'm not searching for someone to admire, I just want good music

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#86

Post by ottah »

libertine wrote: post #29
wincy wrote: post #6

These look nice. It seems it’s been confirmed these aren’t AI generated. But want to say even if they were, I’d have no problem with them being AI at all. This is one of those wedge issues that people get all activated about (it felt like the conversation was more nuanced when the models were more of toys and had too many fingers like Stable Diffusion) but to me it feels analogous to someone being mad that someone is…

Because of everything that behavior represents, and the normalization of lying and deceit as a virtue. I think it's important for a product with a design to have part of the value linked to a human, but the reality is quite different: the vast majority doesn't care. Just go on Amazon a watch the volume of slop there, and people buy it - it's like our standards for taste are so low at the moment, it's a bit sad becaus…

> Because of everything that behavior represents, and the normalization of lying and deceit as a virtue.

That's kind of hyperbolic don't you think? We're not talking about people stating a direct falsehood. We're talking about people producing graphic media in a different manner than ten years ago and that not aligning with your sensabilities.

A mandatory disclosure has never been a requirement of artistic expression. I know some people care a great deal about exactly how something is produced, but that doesn't mean anyone has ever had an obligation to disclose the tools, media or sources used to produce a work.

The only thing that we are due is truthful statements about what is chosen to be disclosed. If an artist tells you they spent hours hand painting a work and it was not, than you've got something to complain about. Otherwise it's none of your business.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#87

Post by semiquaver »

Planktonne wrote: post #82
semiquaver wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean for a thing to be “authentic”? Tolkien hasn’t created anything since he passed away. I hear they used computers to some extent when making the lord of the rings movies, something Tolkien certainly would not have done. Should we thus criticize the movies on the basis of their authenticity?

Again, I think you've misread the parent comment here. The Lord of the Rings --the actual books, the content of the work--is partially about authenticity, in the same way that Spiderman is about power and responsibility. I'm not talking about the provenance of the work, but the content of it.

I have not misread anything, my comment still stands.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#88

Post by Planktonne »

semiquaver wrote: post #87
Planktonne wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I think you've misread the parent comment here. The Lord of the Rings --the actual books, the content of the work--is partially about authenticity, in the same way that Spiderman is about power and responsibility. I'm not talking about the provenance of the work, but the content of it.

I have not misread anything, my comment still stands.

Sure, but it's not relevant to the discussion or as a reply to me.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#89

Post by tsunagatta »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #84
boxed wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's not actually about AI at all? It's about it being incorrect?

The telly tale flip flopping of someone driven by emotion not logic

It's not flip-flopping, they're answering the question that you posed. You claimed that the constraint is arbitrary, they demonstrated how it isn't.

Re: Moleskine's AI Lord of the Rings collection can only mock

#90

Post by Planktonne »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #83
Planktonne wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're still not talking about provenance. Where something comes from is not the same as what it is. The people who want LotR merchandise do so because they care about LotR.

> We're still not talking about provenance. Where something comes from is not the same as what it is. Either define what you mean by authentic, or let us assume that it's a synonym for "something I like"

I'm honestly not sure how much more I can break this down for you. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but you keep on misreading and objecting to things I have not said.

The Lord of the Rings is about lots of things. Some of those things are orcs. When I say that The Lord of the Rings is about orcs, I'm not saying it's made by orcs, or that orcs were used to distribute it, but that orcs are something discussed within the text.

Similarly, when I say that The Lord of the Rings is partially about authenticity, I'm not talking about the way in which it was written, but the contents of the work. Authenticity is a theme in the books, discussed within the text.

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