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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#101

Post by NooneAtAll3 »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

my main eyebrow raise on price comes from pre-built being cheaper than DIY version

how does that even work?

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#102

Post by dangus »

maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

I had to sell my 2016 MacBook Pro because Apple made a defective keyboard design and I had no recourse other than having it replaced with the same defective design. This repair required the replacement of the entire top case of the computer including a number of unrelated components. Without the widespread negative press and repair program, this repair would have cost hundreds of dollars.

I am willing to pay more for a product made by a company whose respect for its customers manifests itself in the design of the product.

I am willing to pay more for a product that has first-class support for non-commercial operating systems that aren’t trying to collect data and sell services.

Lately it’s become obvious to me that Linux is a better desktop experience than macOS or Windows. Liquid Glass ruined my Mac, and Windows is…well, I only ever ran it so I could play games.

Sure, Apple is cheaper, because they make more money selling you services than selling Macs and iPads combined. These are services that are advertised to you within basic settings panels of the operating system, including apps like News that cannot be uninstalled (even Microsoft allows you to uninstall apps like that!)

I don’t want to pay less for a Mac that feels slick during the warranty period but has no upgrade path and no reasonably priced way to repair even minor issues.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#103

Post by derekdahmer »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #80
growt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

What’s the advantage of buying a used MacBook if, since they hold their value well, it won’t be much cheaper than a new one?

They also hold their performance well so for some people it’s worth saving a few hundred bucks plus sales tax by buying a used one.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#104

Post by robotnikman »

cassianoleal wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the Intel and AMD offerings compare? I take it battery life is better on Intel. What about performance for different tasks, such as coding, compiling, etc. What about local LLMs? Do both platforms have "unified memory" à la Apple Silicon? Neither?

It looks like Intel's new Panther Lake chips are a hit, they have amazing battery life and performance compared to their AMD and ARM equivalents (excluding Apple ofc), and the the integrated graphics is better than AMD, ARM, or Apple.

They do not have integrated memory, but by using LPCAMM2 they get better memory speeds than any laptops using the usual SODIMM memory modules.

It's nice to see Intel on the upswing again, more competition is always a good thing.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#105

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

dijit wrote: post #49
kristopolous wrote: post #33

This is what I don't get, among computer uses, apple macs are a minority. I even went around at Linux conferences and counted, like 30-40%. Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible? I've got zero interest in a MacBook chaser. It's not like those are inaccessible to me. I've voluntarily said no to them. Why would I want someone else's imitation of it? "If you can see he…

Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now. You can usually name a laptop that has some feature better than a macbook, but the overall package is so strong in so many avenues. Sound quality, screen quality (even without leaning on fancy new tech like OLED), trackpad quality. Would you rather they target the Dell Latitude (Coil Whine, crazy power-off issues cause…

>Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now.

Probably right, seeing how bad the laptop world is nowadays. Even with its shitty chiclet keyboard and button-less trackpad, the M2 Pro I have to use at work trounces the XPSes my Windows colleagues have.

Still far from the Latitude e64x0 and old 6x series Thinkpads I had but well, they only win on the haptics and repairability level. Thankfully I kept an e6440 that still works "okay" with its Haswell i5 and 1080p IPS screen; the thermals and crappy Intel iGPU are the only thing I really lament.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#106

Post by jantissler »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #80
growt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

What’s the advantage of buying a used MacBook if, since they hold their value well, it won’t be much cheaper than a new one?

Because they are indeed still cheaper? I'm not sure what you're getting at with your question. You can look up values for older Macs if you just don't want to believe it …

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#108

Post by kristopolous »

dummydummy1234 wrote: post #91
kristopolous wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as a consumer one could easily purchase a MacBook. The money works the same as everyone else's. When shopping for laptop from an alternative why would they be wanting a clone of the thing they've already affirmed they're not interested it by the nature of their shopping for alternatives?

So you are not the target audience for this. The target is people who would buy a MacBook but want to run Linux. There are many people who turn down the MacBook, not because of build quality, or design, but because it does not support Linux.

Some people don't like the design, some don't like the ecosystem, keyboard, ports, ... there's a gestalt of decisions, a unified direction apple products go in.

I know the HN comment thread is people who don't see this as an ideology and who have drawers full of apple products and used to work there for years but see this as not a preference in the slightest ... I know who I'm talking to but I for some weird strange, neurodivergent reason, insist on reality.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#109

Post by dijit »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #105
dijit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now. You can usually name a laptop that has some feature better than a macbook, but the overall package is so strong in so many avenues. Sound quality, screen quality (even without leaning on fancy new tech like OLED), trackpad quality. Would you rather they target the Dell Latitude (Coil Whine, crazy power-off issues cause…

>Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now. Probably right, seeing how bad the laptop world is nowadays. Even with its shitty chiclet keyboard and button-less trackpad, the M2 Pro I have to use at work trounces the XPSes my Windows colleagues have. Still far from the Latitude e64x0 and old 6x series Thinkpads I had but well, they only win on the haptics and rep…

Wish there was someone willing to make custom mainboards and panel upgrades for old laptops.

I’d still be using an x201s.

Best laptop I ever owned, everything else has been a downgrade build-wise.

But I need the battery and performance.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#110

Post by GregDavidson »

Everything I run on servers I also run on my laptop. Occasionally I get crashes or corruption because of the lack of ECC memory. I'd also like to be able to swap parts between a modular laptop and a home/small-office server, but again - I want ECC. If framework had a model with ECC I'd be all in!
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