Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

craigmod.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 210 posts

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#91

Post by joe_mamba »

pixel_popping wrote: post #84
gambiting wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it over any linux or Mac based setup.

Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't even trust my environment at first. And for Visual Studio, I would solely run it in a firewalled VM. MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints which makes it insecure by default. There is also serious privacy concerns, basic one would be that telemetry sends all HWID of devices by defa…

>Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't

Most banks on the planet manage trillions on Windows, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by dying on this hill. Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't make you knowledgeable or right about that.

>MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints.

I wonder how all those companies, banks and governments manage to keep MS workers out of their work data.

Any MS workers here that can answer what are you guys doing with all that customer data you look at all day instead of coding?

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#92

Post by fsflover »

elboru wrote: post #36
hbbio wrote: post #17

The elephant in the room is something else. iPhones need desktop mode. Your apps, your data. USB-C screen + Bluetooth keyboard/mouse. Running like iPadOS or even macOS.

Back in 2011, when Motorola released a phone that could do something similar, I was sure that was going to be the future. It’s been 15 years. I still dream of the day when my computer lives on my wrist, and I just have a few dummy screens in different formats that can connect to it so I can consume media or be productive.

My Librem 5 phone runs desktop GNU/Linux and can be used with a screen and keyboard with no restrictions. Unlike Android, it doesn't run mobile apps on a big screen but full desktop apps. See: https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-year-of-librem-5-convergence/

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#93

Post by cjtrowbridge »

QuiEgo wrote: post #81

My dream is having an “app” on ipadOS that switches out userland from ipadOS to macOS when launched. Let them be two silos, containers, VMs, whatever. Only allow “Mac mode” if you have a keyboard and monitor attached. Hell, automatically “sleep” it if you undock. Make it unapologetically keyboard-and-mouse first. One UI for keyboard/mouse. A second UI for touch. One device that can do it all. That’s the dream. I feel…

(this is how android has always worked)

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#94

Post by Fwirt »

QuiEgo wrote: post #81

My dream is having an “app” on ipadOS that switches out userland from ipadOS to macOS when launched. Let them be two silos, containers, VMs, whatever. Only allow “Mac mode” if you have a keyboard and monitor attached. Hell, automatically “sleep” it if you undock. Make it unapologetically keyboard-and-mouse first. One UI for keyboard/mouse. A second UI for touch. One device that can do it all. That’s the dream. I feel…

Touch and mouse are two very distinct forms of input that need to be kept separate. Every convertible Windows laptop I have ever used has convinced me of that.

Mouse interfaces can be incredibly information dense because mice are both incredibly economic from a space and motion standpoint, and also somehow incredibly precise. You can flick your wrist to select any target the size of a grain of rice on a 32" screen. Touch interfaces require larger targets because fingertips are larger than a cursor point, and also require smaller screens because your arm now has to move the entire length of the screen, which is slow and tiring.

Where touchscreens excel is tactile experiences, things that mice cannot replicate. Multi-touch, pressure sensitivity, pen angle. Sweeping motions are difficult to control with a mouse. Manipulating multiple analog controls is nigh-impossible with a mouse.

When an app tries to accommodate both input styles, it inevitably ends up catering to one style or the other, unless two separate interfaces are built. And because a touchscreen laptop can be touched or have the mouse moved at any given time, it's not really possible to switch between the two input styles seamlessly.

I would really enjoy having a device that is capable of both, since the iPad has a gorgeous screen, a great form factor, and a lot of killer uses. But it can't cannibalize mouse interfaces or we wind up with the direction that MacOS is going.

There is nothing wrong with having a keyboard connected to a touch device per se, but the gross arm motion required to move between the touchscreen and the keyboard, and the awkward angle the keyboard puts the touchscreen at sort of nukes the usefulness of the touchscreen. And again, jumping in text is the sort of small target action that mice excel at.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#96

Post by tristor »

I see a lot of people in the comments wanting to use iOS on a laptop, or connecting a mouse and keyboard to an iPad/iPhone. I don't know what the point would be. For anything that is not purely content consumption, a regular laptop is superior to a tablet, phone, or touchscreen generally. What use case other than "it's cool" do you actually expect to use this for?

I keep wanting to buy an iPad, but I create more than I consume, and it's a pointless device for creators (except maybe for drawing/illustration). I have no idea why someone would want a touchscreen and iOS on a Macbook Neo. If you're trying to do something other than passively consume content, a Macbook Neo is a better device than an iPad and does not need a touchscreen.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#97

Post by musictubes »

reacharavindh wrote: post #34

The part that makes ipadOS feels like a toy is Apple’s iron grip in “App Store only” app delivery. The thing has so much power, but to do anything useful, you gotta play by Apple’s rules. All that dream of quirky, useful, innovative ipadOS leveraging apps would show up if they relinquished that software control and let indie or otherwise apps get there without the Apple Tax both in money and rules. Would the iPad sti…

Audio apps on the iPad show that this isn’t the case. The iPad has an incredible amount of amazing audio apps that simply don’t exist and/or are much cheaper than on other platforms. Some of that is due to the great audio performance from day one but a lot of it can be chalked up to the lack of piracy. There are a seemingly endless number of synths, effects, sequencers, etc. in the App Store. It’s a relative ghost town in the Android world. Both Mac and Windows are better environments for DAW work but the plug ins are uniformly (usually much) more expensive.

The console approach to software distribution is good for developers and in this case leads to better software for consumers.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#98

Post by musictubes »

ginko wrote: post #6

I just want a notebook the size and weight of a 10" ipad pro that I can run desktop software on. The Macbook Neo is 12" and weighs 1.23kg which is light but not "forget you have it in your bag" light. It's frustating knowing that the ipad _could_ run mac os but won't due to intentional market segmentation by Apple.

This is the what everyone that says they want Xcode in an iPad actually means. They don’t want an iPad at all, they want a super portable Mac. Every single complaint around iPadOS is from someone trying to use it like a Mac.

I do wish Apple would make an 11” Mac just so people would stop complaining about the iPad lol.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#100

Post by eigencoder »

cjtrowbridge wrote: post #93
QuiEgo wrote: post #81

My dream is having an “app” on ipadOS that switches out userland from ipadOS to macOS when launched. Let them be two silos, containers, VMs, whatever. Only allow “Mac mode” if you have a keyboard and monitor attached. Hell, automatically “sleep” it if you undock. Make it unapologetically keyboard-and-mouse first. One UI for keyboard/mouse. A second UI for touch. One device that can do it all. That’s the dream. I feel…

(this is how android has always worked)

Really? I feel like android doesn't change at all with a keyboard, and doesn't support half the keyboard shortcuts you can use on iPad.
Post reply on HN