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MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

craigmod.com

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Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#81

Post by QuiEgo »

My dream is having an “app” on ipadOS that switches out userland from ipadOS to macOS when launched. Let them be two silos, containers, VMs, whatever.

Only allow “Mac mode” if you have a keyboard and monitor attached. Hell, automatically “sleep” it if you undock. Make it unapologetically keyboard-and-mouse first.

One UI for keyboard/mouse. A second UI for touch. One device that can do it all. That’s the dream.

I feel like we’ve had a few ham fisted attempts over the years at this, and Apple could actually pull it off. I get that it probably won’t happen though.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#82

Post by tomaskafka »

cyberpunk wrote: post #43
tomaskafka wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but what I meant was to have an IDE, where I could run and debug the stack, and deploy when happy. Technically totally doable, just give me a VS Code + local Linux container (Apple Silicon is great at virtualization) to which it can tunnel. In practice, impossible with Apple's limitations.

Ah fair enough, mostly i’m living in tmux/vim for those scenarios. Real dev work I’d want an IDE too, but seeing the Jetbrains splash on my holidays would ruin my holidays.

I don't want to see it either, but as I run my app business, I much prefer being able to fix the issue if it happens, without taking my $2000+ MBP for a two week road trip full of sand and dirt.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#83

Post by gambiting »

pixel_popping wrote: post #77
gambiting wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you mean you wouldn't feel safe using a Samsung phone period.

Absolutely, the same way as I wouldn't trust Windows for serious work.

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it over any linux or Mac based setup.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#84

Post by pixel_popping »

gambiting wrote: post #83
pixel_popping wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, the same way as I wouldn't trust Windows for serious work.

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it over any linux or Mac based setup.

Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't even trust my environment at first. And for Visual Studio, I would solely run it in a firewalled VM.

MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints which makes it insecure by default. There is also serious privacy concerns, basic one would be that telemetry sends all HWID of devices by default, so if you share a USB stick with a friend, you two are automatically correlated in MS database, not really my cup of tea.

Not a big fan of an OS asking for an ID indirectly (via mandatory phone number) as well, mandatory MS account at install time (except if you tamper with the ISO, yeah sure)

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#85

Post by dangus »

steveBK123 wrote: post #21

I've used Mac for 20 years and iPad on&off for 10 years.. largely I agree with Craig. Touch on MacOS is basically useless, you won't realize this until you try using an iPad like a MacBook for an extended period of time. Reaching up from keyboard/trackpad to touch the screen quickly gets fatiguing. It is not ergonomic. The iPad is meant to be used in touch mode while in your hands generally. If they were brave they'd…

The truth is that the moment Apple offers a touch screen on macOS, the Mac cult faithful will hail the day as a breakthrough in innovation.

I suggest that you watch people in cafes, offices, and libraries (especially young people) use Windows-based touchscreen-equipped laptops. There's nothing that "sucks" or is "useless" about having the additional option of a touch interface on a laptop.

You don't even have to use it! There is zero downside to having a touch input on a laptop. As a component it has essentially invisible cost or negative tradeoff in any way. You still have a keyboard and mouse. It is helpful to have for little things. Examples below:

- Resizing photos with pinch zoom

- Scrolling smoothly through PDFs

- Hitting OK on a dialog box

- Making a digital signature

- Hell, macOS runs a good amount of iPhone and iPad apps that were designed for a touch screen, so we could add "using iOS apps" to the list.

- Using handwriting to take notes...much nicer to be able to draw diagrams versus being limited to text only (in a 2-in-1 form factor on a device with pen support)

Apple just hasn't made the 2-in-1 device format that a very large percentage of Windows laptops are sold with, the kind with a folding hinge. Perhaps this is because they have had Tim Cook's operations mindset so long. They don't really care that it's a device that 1/3 of users will enjoy. They couldn't even keep selling the iPhone mini even though a device that sells 5% of the iPhone's volume is still an incredibly successful device. They just want to make as few SKUs as possible to maintain profit margins, not to deliver innovative tech that at least some customers want and enjoy.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#86

Post by cosmic_cheese »

christophilus wrote: post #30
steveBK123 wrote: post #21

I've used Mac for 20 years and iPad on&off for 10 years.. largely I agree with Craig. Touch on MacOS is basically useless, you won't realize this until you try using an iPad like a MacBook for an extended period of time. Reaching up from keyboard/trackpad to touch the screen quickly gets fatiguing. It is not ergonomic. The iPad is meant to be used in touch mode while in your hands generally. If they were brave they'd…

This is why I’ve never understood the demand for a touchscreen on a laptop. All of my non-Mac laptops have touchscreens, and I basically never use the touch feature except by accident (e.g. a kid pointing and asking a question and causing some code to highlight).

Touch on standard laptops really doesn't make any sense. At most it should be a BTO option, not something that comes stock. That capacitative sensing capability doesn't come for free after all (and not just in terms of monetary costs) and users who know that they'll never use it shouldn't have to pay for it.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#89

Post by dangus »

I grow tired of the MacBook Neo gloating and almost like a light version of bragging in articles like this. It's coded as a critique of the iPad but it feels a lot more like "I'm typing this on a MacBook Neo and it's oh soo amazing!"

Apple is essentially selling the modern version of the eMac, and I would say the Neo is almost as bad of a purchase as that product. The real selling point of the device is that it's newly in box with a warranty. If you actually go to the used market, it's easy to find a gently used machine that is much better. Any MacBook Air with an M2 and 16GB of RAM is a better purchase.

The Neo situation is the equivalent of buying a brand new $500 Acer machine versus buying a $500 eBay ThinkPad T14 or something like that. You'll get a much better laptop by buying a used laptop versus buying that brand new Acer.

The same story goes for the MacBook Neo. It'll be successful in sales, and it's a nice machine in a lot of ways, but it's one of the most overhyped devices of our present times.

It will go down in history as a device like the iPhone 5C. Save a few bucks now, but pay for it in the near future with the kind of performance you're actually getting from it. Even basic casual tasks will chug in the very near future.

Apple is selling a device that is approximately equivalent to the $1000 laptop they were selling 5 years ago and we are acting like this is a revolutionary product. And, by the way, it's not a $500 product unless you can use the education store. It's actually $600, or $700 if you are buying a configuration that actually makes some level of sense and has enough storage. $700 will buy you a 16GB/512GB MacBook Air M2, a much better machine (better screen, battery, speakers, processor, keyboard, trackpad, I/O, etc).

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#90

Post by pxeboot »

dangus wrote: post #89

I grow tired of the MacBook Neo gloating and almost like a light version of bragging in articles like this. It's coded as a critique of the iPad but it feels a lot more like "I'm typing this on a MacBook Neo and it's oh soo amazing!" Apple is essentially selling the modern version of the eMac, and I would say the Neo is almost as bad of a purchase as that product. The real selling point of the device is that it's new…

> If you actually go to the used market, it's easy to find a gently used machine that is much better.

A huge percentage of the population (at least in the US) is completely unwilling to buy any used consumer products. For some it is the ick factor, for others it is fear of being scammed.

> Any MacBook Air with an M2 and 16GB of RAM is a better purchase.

Is this really a better alternative if it stops getting macOS updates several years sooner? I wouldn’t buy an 8gb laptop, but they are fine for many use cases.

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