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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#771

Post by spaceman_2020 »

jatora wrote: post #618
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been baffled watching America double down on the same strategy even when it failed to produce results They sanctioned the hell out of Huawei and now Huawei is bigger than ever America is just not able to digest the idea that another country can be as good, if not better, at innovation

I'm no huge fan of America, but claiming China is as good or better at innovation is asinine. It costs 100-1000x less manpower, money, and time to hug the heels of innovators than to actually pioneer. Say what you will about America but they absolutely lead technological innovation and it's not even remotely close.

Yeah, because the Americans had a 150 year headstart

China had literally 60M people die in a famine when JFK was president and Elvis was the biggest thing. The country was basically farmland and basic industries 40 years ago

Why would you even compare their capabilities today vs a country that has been a sovereign nation for 250 years?

You look at trajectories, not the present

Re: DeepSeek v4

#772

Post by Rover222 »

Quite jarring to see how many people think the Chinese authoritarian regime, and the tech that it allows to be created in that country, are going to be "safer" or whatever than US tech.

It's trendy to say the US govt is now authorization, but that's just pure naïve groupthink.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#773

Post by riskd »

gordonhart wrote: post #746
copypaper wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also not forget SoTA models stole from us.

True, and they're being tried in a federal court of law for it. NYT v. OpenAI is still very much alive, these things just take a while. Can the same be said about DeepSeek or any other open-source model provider performing distillation?

You already know what the results of this “trial” will be. Let’s not pretend.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#774

Post by pb7 »

0x737368 wrote: post #767
Scroll_Swe wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. I feel uneasy over China dominance as much as the US. I trust US more still as Europe has a post WW2 relationship. I notice many comments being pro China but they seem to be from the third world (one mentioned a very low salary) I feel the opening of the internet was a mistake. China is a totilitarian dictatorship. This is a fact. Look into Mistral AI too :…

And then westerners wonder why they're disliked in the rest of the world...

You are on a Western website.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#775

Post by hamdingers »

LZ_Khan wrote: post #729

It's easy to praise Deepseek for its results and generosity -- how they can keep up with frontier labs on Huawei chips for a fraction of the cost! -- but let's not forget a big part of their toolkit is heavy distillation of SoTA.

I could not possibly care less if I tried. Every LLM is a distillation of something else.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#776

Post by platinumrad »

Scroll_Swe wrote: post #759
chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

>- it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. I feel uneasy over China dominance as much as the US. I trust US more still as Europe has a post WW2 relationship. I notice many comments being pro China but they seem to be from the third world (one mentioned a very low salary) I feel the opening of the internet was a mistake. China is a totilitarian dictatorship. This is a fact. Look into Mistral AI too :…

> I notice many comments being pro China but they seem to be from the third world (one mentioned a very low salary) I feel the opening of the internet was a mistake.

Yeah, I also really hate when poor people think they're allowed to talk.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#777

Post by 93po »

copypaper wrote: post #735
LZ_Khan wrote: post #729

It's easy to praise Deepseek for its results and generosity -- how they can keep up with frontier labs on Huawei chips for a fraction of the cost! -- but let's not forget a big part of their toolkit is heavy distillation of SoTA.

Let's also not forget SoTA models stole from us.

let's not forget that calling copyright infringement theft is hyperbole, and the claim that AI is even infringing is also dubious at best, and that the concept of intellectual property at all is also ethically dubious

Re: DeepSeek v4

#778

Post by copypaper »

gordonhart wrote: post #746
copypaper wrote: post #735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also not forget SoTA models stole from us.

True, and they're being tried in a federal court of law for it. NYT v. OpenAI is still very much alive, these things just take a while. Can the same be said about DeepSeek or any other open-source model provider performing distillation?

Pandora's box has already been opened and there is no going back. I doubt OpenAI, et al will get anything but a slap on the wrist in court because punishing AI companies would have a negative effect on the US economy.

>Can the same be said about DeepSeek or any other open-source model provider performing distillation?

Open source models that distill from SoTA reminds me of the story of Robin Hood -- robbing the rich and giving it to the poor. So to answer your question: yes, but it's better than the alternative where only a select few companies have SoTA models.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#779

Post by putlake »

antirez wrote: post #448
xnx wrote: post #173

Such different time now than early 2025 when people thought Deepaeek was going to kill the market for Nvidia.

Actually the fact the inference of a SOTA model is completely Nvidia-free is the biggest attack to Nvidia every carried so far. Even American frontier AI labs may start to buy Chinese hardware if they need to continue the AI race, they can't keep paying so much money for the GPUs, especially once Huawei training versions of their GPUs will ship.

By "completely Nvidia-free" do you mean Nvidia wasn't used for training nor inference? Because if it's only inference, we know that Opus already can run on TPUs. Not to mention Gemini.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#780

Post by nazgulsenpai »

chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

This thread really exploded into partisan geopolitics. Sad to see. And I agree. This whole ecosystem of tech monopolies is a negative from just about every POV except the government, the investor, and the companies themselves.
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