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Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

theguardian.com

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Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#121

Post by 22122 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #97
antinomicus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claiming that Israel is entirely a Netanyahu problem is ridiculous. No Netanyahu and what do you have left? An apartheid state, probably run by any number of awful replacements, like ben gvir or smotrich. Israel was founded in the shadow of the Nakba - they displaced million people and killed something like 15,000. That was only right when it was founded too. Post 1967, Israel ceased to have any left wing politics, a…

I deliberately used the phrase "Netanyahu's Israel". The problem is much more than Netanyahu, it's the Israel Netanyahu epitomizes whether or not it got there via Netanyahu or other similar routes. Given that Netanyahu was legitimately elected, there are lots of similar routes.

the early zionists had a similar attitude towards arabs as netanyahu and co do today. but for them it was more from a jewish power colonialist angle rather than the victimhood angle that netanyahu is obsessed with

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#122

Post by thot_experiment »

micik wrote: post #117
thot_experiment wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said what I said; israel is the problem, I have no significant beef with Judaism (no more than any religion and less than some). https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extremes-of-israe...

I recommend you read the book World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig. The experience of the world Jewry in (pre-)WW2 continental Europe was so shockingly brutal, the establishment of the state of Israel was an inevitability. Jews were the scapegoat driven out from cities into the desert to amend for other's sins for millenia. Some would say they've gotten used to it. The bestial conduct of Nazis was such that even the pe…

> To paint a picture with words...Stefan Zweig, model intellectual and model European, ended his life in 1942 at age 61 in Brazil, having lost his home of 20 years in Salzburg, his beloved Europe and, in his own words, a large part of himself.

LMFAO do you understand how incredibly VILE it is to say this in this context?

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#123

Post by suburban_strike »

22122 wrote: post #120
micik wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend you read the book World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig. The experience of the world Jewry in (pre-)WW2 continental Europe was so shockingly brutal, the establishment of the state of Israel was an inevitability. Jews were the scapegoat driven out from cities into the desert to amend for other's sins for millenia. Some would say they've gotten used to it. The bestial conduct of Nazis was such that even the pe…

this just isn't true, jews didn't have it any worse than non jews in european history, they just like to dwell on their historical instances of suffering. One could argue that jews had it better than the native peoples around them because their population swelled at a higher rate over the duration of their stay, and historically, population growth tracked resource availability.

What you describe is known as the "lachrymose" framing of their historiography.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#124

Post by suburban_strike »

sethammons wrote: post #53

Sexual assault and violence is the biblical explanation for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah according to more and more modern biblical scholars. The Christian's who hate the gays should instead direct their bible and politicians at Israeli soldiers and their government.

Don't trust Christians to interpret Jewish literature. They're still struggling with the "immaculate conception" of the "virgin" Mary. This was common enough that the rabbis weighed in and set the precedent for "technical virginity" (anal) that was later attributed to Catholics.

The residents of Sodom were directly offered Lot's virgin daughters, and they politely declined, preferring to sodomize the angels Lot was harboring. God glassed both cities because the city was full of degenerates that held nothing sacred.

Lot's daughters both raped him immediately after fleeing the city and nobody had anything to say about it, so rape cannot possibly be the offense the Sodomites were punished for.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#125

Post by throwawaypath »

22122 wrote: post #119
throwawaypath wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

interesting, because a common excuse given for israel's continued occupation of Westbank, Golan heights, and Gaza strip is that without those territories israel would be under threat of destruction by her arab neighbors. which is it?

It's almost like good armies understand the concept of buffer zones and bringing the fight to the enemy. Maybe if Arabs weren't such poor fighters they'd understand. You made my point for me.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#126

Post by fud101 »

micik wrote: post #117
thot_experiment wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said what I said; israel is the problem, I have no significant beef with Judaism (no more than any religion and less than some). https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extremes-of-israe...

I recommend you read the book World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig. The experience of the world Jewry in (pre-)WW2 continental Europe was so shockingly brutal, the establishment of the state of Israel was an inevitability. Jews were the scapegoat driven out from cities into the desert to amend for other's sins for millenia. Some would say they've gotten used to it. The bestial conduct of Nazis was such that even the pe…

This is some tired fanfiction no one asked for. But please, keep ringing the bell of victimhood, it's surely going to be well received this time.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#127

Post by 22122 »

throwawaypath wrote: post #125
22122 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting, because a common excuse given for israel's continued occupation of Westbank, Golan heights, and Gaza strip is that without those territories israel would be under threat of destruction by her arab neighbors. which is it?

It's almost like good armies understand the concept of buffer zones and bringing the fight to the enemy. Maybe if Arabs weren't such poor fighters they'd understand. You made my point for me.

do you think that israel would be under threat of destruction if they ended the occupation of those territories? if so, how did israel gain those territories in the first place? if not, why does israel use that as an excuse for the continued occupation?

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#128

Post by [deleted] »

22122 wrote: post #120
micik wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend you read the book World of Yesterday by Stefan Zweig. The experience of the world Jewry in (pre-)WW2 continental Europe was so shockingly brutal, the establishment of the state of Israel was an inevitability. Jews were the scapegoat driven out from cities into the desert to amend for other's sins for millenia. Some would say they've gotten used to it. The bestial conduct of Nazis was such that even the pe…

this just isn't true, jews didn't have it any worse than non jews in european history, they just like to dwell on their historical instances of suffering. One could argue that jews had it better than the native peoples around them because their population swelled at a higher rate over the duration of their stay, and historically, population growth tracked resource availability.

[deleted]

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#129

Post by [deleted] »

suburban_strike wrote: post #123
22122 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this just isn't true, jews didn't have it any worse than non jews in european history, they just like to dwell on their historical instances of suffering. One could argue that jews had it better than the native peoples around them because their population swelled at a higher rate over the duration of their stay, and historically, population growth tracked resource availability.

What you describe is known as the "lachrymose" framing of their historiography.

[deleted]

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#130

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Allfodr wrote: post #113
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arab citizens can vote Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. Oh, they're citizens of another country you say? What country would that be? Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well, but it doesn't excuse what's happening in Gaza and (particularly) in the West Bank. Regardless of how progressive or democratic a state is, if they keep bombing other states and killing peo…

> Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. They can. They voted in Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank. They are not Israeli citizens, which is why they don't vote in Israeli elections. You wouldn't expect the US to give voting rights to Mexicans or Canadians who aren't dual citizens, would you? > Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well "Somewhat"? They get subsidi…

> They can. They voted in Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank. They are not Israeli citizens, which is why they don't vote in Israeli elections

OK great, what country are they citizens of, then? Are they stateless? Sure seems like it.

Like, either the current settler activity in the West Bank is an illegal invasion and occupation of another country, or Judea and Samaria (funnily enough where most of the New Testament happens) are part of Israel, and thus the Palestinians there should get votes in Israeli elections. You can't have it both ways.

> Nice summary for wars that were NEVER started by Israel. And before you mention Iran, it has been at war with Israel since 1979, the moment it declared it would erase Israel off the face of the Earth, and has been actively attacking Israel through its proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) for decades.

I'm certainly not going to defend the Iranian regime or Hezbollah. Hamas are assholes, but there are legitimate concerns around what has happened to the Palestinian people since 1948 (well really before that, but 1948 is a convenient date). I don't agree with their violence, but when there is no hope of a negotiated solution, I'm entirely unsurprised that some people choose violence.

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