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CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

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Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#61

Post by lini »

malnourish wrote: post #58
lini wrote: post #57

The problem with the CM project is most of the devices it tries to support are not open source. What I mean is that the drivers for the radio, GPU, audio, etc. chips are not available in source form like Android itself (via AOSP). In order to compile a ROM for any device, the developers have to rely on binary blobs ripped from an official update or a different device. Unfortunately, that means bad support for devices…

I have CM10 running on my Galaxy S2 Epic 4g touch just fine. No stability issues whatsoever. Only problem is it can't ever find GPS.

There is a list of known issues with the latest nightlies[1]. I was talking about the international version of S2 (i9100), because that is what I tried CM10 on a few weeks ago.

[1]http://teamhacksung.org/wiki/index.php/CyanogenMod10:GT-I910...

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#62

Post by maratd »

mindslight wrote: post #39
maratd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not listening. Linux on the PC works on pretty much any computer because Intel eradicated the competition . If you buy a new computer, you're almost certainly running an Intel chipset with an Intel CPU, and probably Intel graphics, NIC, etc. That makes supporting the Linux kernel for computers relatively trivial. This is not the case with mobile. You have dozens of CPU variants for each generation . Nevermind…

No, I've been listening. It's just that nobody has been making any actual points besides 'stfu'. So thank you for bringing the discussion back to technicals. Your point re: Intel peripherals is true today, but wasn't really true ten years ago. It's also a bit hard to talk about the Linux kernel today, as there is obviously a lot of money and other support such that every little piece is fully tended to by someone. So…

> Intel peripherals is true today, but wasn't really true ten years ago.

Absolutely. Linux was a nightmare to get properly working then. Trust me, I remember. You essentially bought hardware that you knew was going to work. You couldn't buy anything just off-the-shelf and expect it work.

Same problem with mobile.

> So my real question is why do the old drivers have to leave the tree or at least become perma deprecated?

Because Google keeps messing with the kernel? Which is fine, they have to move the platform forward.

> Is there that many breaking interface changes for which drivers cannot be mostly mechanically updated?

Most drivers are closed source. You only have binaries. This is truly unfortunate. So if the manufacturer of the component doesn't release the source (almost never happens) or a new device goes on the market with the same component and updated Android (almost never happens), you're stuck in a very unfortunate place.

Even the slightest change will break everything.

> I know this is a problem that the kernel devs managed just fine over the years

No, they didn't manage shit. They hacked. Hacking takes effort and time. Nobody wants to spend time on old hardware.

> I'm not asking for them to conjure up someone to magically do extra work to support my device ..

You are asking that because ...

> I'm asking why they don't change their process such that this extra work is unnecessary in the first place.

... this isn't possible.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#63

Post by yason »

I can't wait till we get to the point where you can pretty much buy any phone, download your favorite Linux/Android distribution, hit install and watch it come alive.

Phones are computers these days. And this is how we deal with computers, right? We keep installing Ubuntus, Fedoras, Windows, even OS X on any x86 box. We've got decades of experience of doing that.

The current phone market resembles the 80's home computer market: there were dozens if not hundreds different computers that were incompatible with each other. In the 90's the PC architecture had won and Linux started to be usable with the most basic components. In the 00's it became commonplace to be able to install Linux on nearly any computer you could buy off the shelf and expect 99% of things to work out of the box.

It would take till 2040 to reach this on phones if it took the same time. However, given the faster development and evolution of the phone ecosystems I would expect that we'll hit that target in 2020's or so. By then, the cpu+gpu+modem variations have converged to a few well-known architectures for which open source drivers are available. They might be slower or consume a little more power than the original drivers but nevertheless at least you can boot your phone with your own software that you downloaded somewhere.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#65

Post by untog »

lini wrote: post #57

The problem with the CM project is most of the devices it tries to support are not open source. What I mean is that the drivers for the radio, GPU, audio, etc. chips are not available in source form like Android itself (via AOSP). In order to compile a ROM for any device, the developers have to rely on binary blobs ripped from an official update or a different device. Unfortunately, that means bad support for devices…

Yep, I bought an HTC One S with the same issues. I've learnt my lesson- my first Android phone was a Nexus One so I didn't know how annoying it is. I'm buying a Nexus 4 and selling the One S.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#66

Post by CJefferson »

mindslight wrote: post #53
rbanffy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ubuntu doesn't say "too bad, we no longer own any six year old Thinkpad T60's" when they release a new version. It's not a huge problem because new x86-based computers still have to run Windows XP (they can probably run MS-DOS too) and, therefore, cannot be that much different from the six year old Thhinkpad of your example.

But we're talking about source compatibility, not binary compatibility. So getting around the quirks of the old devices is an already solved problem, even if it needs to be #ifdef'd out for the newer devices. The problem isn't technical, it's a philosophy that treats every device as an opaque special case, rather than factoring out the common parts and abstracting out the differences. Of course the incidental complex…

No, sorry. You are wrong.

Every phone is a horrible special case, and those #ifdefs do not simply map forward from one version of the OS to another, unlike on a PC where a single set of drivers will get most computers to a basic working state.

More importantly, how do you suggest they debug? When a phone OS is incorrectly configured, the most likely behaviour is simply hanging with a black screen. Distributing such releases would be worse than useless. If you want to put in the work to make CM work on your device, there are plenty of people who would help you.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#67

Post by voltagex_ »

lini wrote: post #61
malnourish wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have CM10 running on my Galaxy S2 Epic 4g touch just fine. No stability issues whatsoever. Only problem is it can't ever find GPS.

There is a list of known issues with the latest nightlies[1]. I was talking about the international version of S2 (i9100), because that is what I tried CM10 on a few weeks ago. [1] http://teamhacksung.org/wiki/index.php/CyanogenMod10:GT-I910...

Email Samsung and ask when they're releasing the platform documentation. It's really the only thing you can do, and it sucks.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#68

Post by skeletonjelly »

moheeb wrote: post #51
pkulak wrote: post #40

That's really nice, but I don't think I'll be touching anything until this page is completed: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_III_(Veriz... It just freaks me out to follow directions found on some random forum.

My whole career has been based on following directions found on some random forum.

The start of my career was based on following directions on some forum until "Never mind, fixed it!" half the time.

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#69

Post by Nursie »

EnderMB wrote: post #30
Nursie wrote: post #3

Cool. May even make the switch before long as I am still waiting for Samsung to release JB on the Galaxy Note.

Given Samsung's past in providing updates for phones you may be waiting for a long time.

It's true! Though apparently a 4.1.x ROM has leaked recently, so it looks like there is work here at least

Re: CyanogenMod 10.0 Release

#70

Post by codelust »

anonymouz wrote: post #36
mindslight wrote: post #6

It really irks me that there are no builds for older devices. What is the point of installing CM and putting up with reduced and clunky functionality, just to be left by the wayside for updates? I don't know if this is due to CM or Google itself running amok on the upstream tree, but a philosophy that considers a two year old device obsolete is utterly preposterous.

Others have already said that it's a community project and so YMMV with respect to older phones. I have a Samsung Galaxy S (the first one). Since this phone has quite a following I got very lucky: CM has continuously been releasing updates for it, even though it's a very old phone by todays standards. I've been using CM7 on it, now have CM9 installed and am in the progress of upgrading to CM10. CyanogenMod's support…

Been on the CM10 nightlies ever since they started coming out for the SGS. If you are upgrading from CM9, be warned that you will wind up with a new partition layout and new user data by the time you're done with the upgrade.

Till recently, it was pretty stable and a brilliant release. There was some issue that led to awful battery drain as I kept progressing through the daily builds in the past few weeks. Resolved it by going through a full wipe than just cache wipes.

My phone is 2-years-old now and it has been a good run. For its ruggedness (multiple and frequent drops, couple of dunks in water, clumsy usage), I just don't want to give it up, but it seems like they may have trouble doing CM11 on it.

Do turn off zRAM in the performance options for better stability.

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