Does anyone feel that the jig is almost up? Surely the returns aren’t anywhere close to what investors expect with the sheer amount of cash at this point in time. Are Anthropic and OpenAI rushing to IPO for immediate cash so they can delay the inevitable? Surely this cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul to pay John to pay Tim must end. We are only just now getting a taste of the “true cost” of these tokens. Then there…
You're observing that: a) effective price-per-token is rising b) there is insufficient compute to meet the demand. And your conclusion is that the industry is circling the drain and due to collapse?
Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
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Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#222Does anyone feel that the jig is almost up? Surely the returns aren’t anywhere close to what investors expect with the sheer amount of cash at this point in time. Are Anthropic and OpenAI rushing to IPO for immediate cash so they can delay the inevitable? Surely this cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul to pay John to pay Tim must end. We are only just now getting a taste of the “true cost” of these tokens. Then there…
You're observing that: a) effective price-per-token is rising b) there is insufficient compute to meet the demand. And your conclusion is that the industry is circling the drain and due to collapse?
a) cost per successful task is rising — eg claude max allocation is functionally shrinking
b) is there enough potential cost reduction in the queue to make up the gap
c) if open models converge on a more efficient but slightly-less capable point (which has effectively happened) what is the actual moat?
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#223Someone can explain to me what's the expectations for these AI labs? I mostly see their products as commodity at this point, with strong open source contenders. Eventually it will become hard to justify the premium on these models.
Companies bake their workflows into these tools. Internal processes start to be written up around specific tools. Once something works, it gets pushed out at scale for all to copy.
Anthropic hit $30B in revenue and this is just the start of coding being deployed at scale. Hard to look past these numbers at this point
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
While $5000 is a lot, the people who rack up close or just over a thousand "API equivalent cost" are pretty common. > Most likely the subscription inference cost is much lower than you expect. This is probably not true because they'd be screaming it off every rooftop were that the case. Same deal with the API inference. Even the "profitable on inference" claim is sourced back to hearsay of informal statements made by…
I don't know about SEC rules but the anthropic CEO said they have a 50%+ margin on API pricing.
A bit of google searching later can get us a specific interview. https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/dario-amodei-2
> Let’s say half of your compute is for training and half of your compute is for inference. The inference has some gross margin that’s more than 50%.
But the context, the very previous sentence is:
> Think about it this way. Again, these are stylized facts. These numbers are not exact. I’m just trying to make a toy model here.
Here, Amodei is in effect using weasel words. He is not giving any actionable claims about Anthropics margins, merely plucking an arbitrary number. Why 50%? Is 50% reasonable? Is 50% accurate to the company? Those are all conclusions the listener draws, not Amodei.
> I don't know about SEC rules
The main premise is that, as a CEO, there are some regulations you are beholden to. You're not allowed to announce you've made a trillion dollar profit, sell all your stock, and then go "teehee just kidding". The SEC prosecute you for securities fraud if you do that stuff.
This makes such weasel words as earlier suspicious. Because the exact statement Amodei gives is not prosecutable. He's not saying anything about the company, just doing a little "toy model".
The degree to which it is intentional that this hearsay travels and is extrapolated from "Well he picked 50% because it's a reasonable figure, and because he's CEO, a reasonable figure would have to be a figure akin to what his company can achieve" into "Anthropic has 50% margin", that's up for debate. Maybe it is intentional, maybe Amodei is exactly the same kind of shitweasel as Altman is. Probably he's just a dumbass who runs his mouth in interviews and for whatever reason cannot issue the true number in an authoritative statement to dismiss this misconception.
Hence my original comment; If the real number were better than the hearsay rumours of the number, Amodei would immediately issue a correction; It'd be great for the company. Hell, even if 50% were about the margin, that'd be great! To promote that from mere hearsay to "we're profitable, go invest all your money" would also be huge. Really, any kind of margin at all would put him ahead of OpenAI.
But he doesn't issue a correction. He doesn't affirm the statement. Perhaps he has other reasons for that, but a rather big reason could be that the margin number is in fact pretty bad.
Now, the observant reader will note I am also using a weasel word there. I do not know whether the number is good or bad, your take away should be "it could be bad." Not "it is bad". Go pressure Amodei into giving us the real number.
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that per-token cost is a total joke. All these companies are fighting to build market share in some future dominated by one or two AI ecosystems. It is musical chairs until someone creates the one ring to rule them all. So they are charging token amounts just to claim revenue as they burn through investor dollars. In short: per-token charges currently cover maybe 1% of the total costs in this field. To pay ongoin…
If that's true, it's very unsustainable. Gemma-4 26B-A4B + M5 MacBook Pro + OpenCode isn't Claude Code _yet_, but it's good enough that if I were forced to use it I would be fine.
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I give it one to two more years before open source models have fully caught up. Products are commodities and models are commodities too. GPUs cores are still hard to get for inference at scale right now. They need a platform with lock in but unsure what that would look like and why it wouldn't be based on open source models.
Why do people have such faith in "open source" models? There's nothing "open source" about them. No individuals have the ability to train such modules. They are just released by companies to commoditize the models of the competition. If Mythos is the endgame, companies won't release open-weight equivalents, and no private individuals have the capital to train such models.
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
And receiving investment from their vendor in exchange? When this is done in established companies it is typically called a kickback and directed toward one person, but in this case the whole thing is so incestuous the kickback goes straight to the top.
Is it crazy to imagine Anthropic can leverage short term cash flow now to build the models and products that will let them resell $100B in AWS infra with nice margins tomorrow? If Amazon believes that story they’d be crazy not to invest.
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does seem like the tempo and volume of the music is getting louder and louder as the number of chairs is subtly decreasing, doesn’t it?
Because also look at the bond market... It's all coming to a crescendo including the global economic recession indicators which will be a cold sprinkler on the whole party. Gemma4 being able to run on commodity hardware I think is the real win out of this. Pop the bubble. Settle the craziness and the claws. Let scientists and engineers tinker and improve in the background. Hopefully we can have GPUs be affordable for…
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#229Does anyone feel that the jig is almost up? Surely the returns aren’t anywhere close to what investors expect with the sheer amount of cash at this point in time. Are Anthropic and OpenAI rushing to IPO for immediate cash so they can delay the inevitable? Surely this cycle of robbing Peter to pay Paul to pay John to pay Tim must end. We are only just now getting a taste of the “true cost” of these tokens. Then there…
1. Model providers are currently profitable when just counting the cost to serve tokens for inference[1]. They lose money training the next generation of models.
2. Open models don’t work nearly as well. Given that tokens are still relatively cheap, and hallucinations are expensive, I’ve not seen a huge up tick in open model usage for coding agents yet.
3. On the AI economy front, I really have no idea, but AI companies (meta, msft) have already come down in value. It seems investors are at least a little wary of AI over valuation. Of course, the stock market is not the economy, but it’s not clear where warning signs would be. Earnings are healthy.
1: https://martinalderson.com/posts/no-it-doesnt-cost-anthropic...
2: https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/04/20/a...
Re: Anthropic takes $5B from Amazon and pledges $100B in cloud spending in return
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about SEC rules but the anthropic CEO said they have a 50%+ margin on API pricing.
I'm going to be a dickhead for a moment here, apologies, there's no way to say this that isn't rude to you. This is still the same hearsay "In an interview, somewhere." A bit of google searching later can get us a specific interview. https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/dario-amodei-2 > Let’s say half of your compute is for training and half of your compute is for inference. The inference has some gross margin that’s more than…