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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#791

Post by tossaway0 »

concinds wrote: post #16

Seems to me like the top goal should be: you can easily replace the most-likely-to-break parts (screen, back, battery, etc) in any local independent repair shop, with genuine parts that have low markups. I'm confused why that still isn't the case today given all the EU headlines we've seen over the years.

Low markups wouldn't be the main issue in the EU, though it would help. It's labor cost because it takes skill, specialized tools, and time.

If the shop could replace the battery with nothing more niche than a torx bit in 5 minutes we wouldn't be talking about this.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#792

Post by [deleted] »

shocks wrote: post #298
bibstha wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me and partner are both on iPhone 14 Pro. And this is more than powerful and sufficient for our daily use, except the battery is around 82%. I'd happily replace the battery right now for a more powerful one.

You can pay Apple to replace it for you, and the cost is not that high. £90 or so. If the battery swap fails, you’ll get a as-new replacement phone and you also won’t be charged. In exchange for this monetary cost and the inconvenience of leaving your phone at an Apple Store for 1 hour; you get peace of mind and a highly rated water/dust proof phone. (Seriously, I’ve seen people diving with iPhones - no case - record…

[deleted]

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#793

Post by cyberrock »

rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The final law just makes replacing batteries more accessible (i.e. no glue or special screws), but it doesn't mandate battery packs. Also some devices like hearing aids are exempt.

I question whether battery packs would be a good thing to bring back now. USB power banks have 100% interchangeability among many device classes, which is something that not even dry cell batteries achieved. I can choose to leave the house with or without a power bank and just rent one in my city (YMMV). Modern charging wattages are high enough that I don't miss shutting down my Nexus, changing the pack, then rebooting.

It's tempting to say that this could be solved if battery sizes were standardized, but that would inevitably limit device dimensions. For example, I especially loathe how the 18650 has made almost all modern flashlights clunky. I would hate it if Apple pushes for a 4.5mm thick battery standard to kill all foldables because they don't want to enter the market and cannibalize their iPad demand.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#794

Post by numpad0 »

8note wrote: post #735
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it:…

> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh. alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?

That brings back memories! Yes, many devices before iPhone had normalized internal batteries indeed had aftermarket extended batteries. They would come with matching bulged back covers to fit the significantly oversized battery.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#795

Post by aivisol »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #778

I used to work for Nokia back when they still made phones. Replaceable batteries were very normal then. Phones were a bit thicker than today but not massively so. These days phones are actually thinner but much larger. I had a "are you happy to see me or is that a Nokia" type Nokia 9300. That was a brick. But it had a full hw keyboard. and flipped open it wasn't that much bigger than a modern smart phone. You could a…

I have my 9300 still in a drawer ( checked ) . Interesting if it is possible to find a replacement battery for it and what functionality would still be usable? A physical SIM, 3G still works…

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#796

Post by chromacity »

rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so.

As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, but I guess it makes them look futuristic, which helps with sales. The same goes for highly-reflective, glossy screens. I guess I'm not gonna cry if that gets regulated away.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#797

Post by realityfactchex »

wincy wrote: post #255
bombcar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're taking "commercially available" to mean things like a screwdriver - not a $1000 phone disassembly machine.

With all due respect, I can buy a kit on iFixit for $55 for an iPhone 16 pro max, including the battery . I’ve replaced my iPhone battery before, aside from the glue being a bit sticky so needing a heat gun it isn’t that difficult.

Even with a good battery, bugs/features on the latest iOS can make iPhone 15 Pro Max battery last terribly, terribly short.

Part of the new requirement should be they can't kill battery lifespan in 2-year old phones through software updates, either.

Because even "replaceable battery" doesn't fix that serious problem!

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#798

Post by frm88 »

jbombadil wrote: post #297
emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

I'm curious about the environmental argument here. At face value it makes sense, but is there some hard data that shows that there is a meaningful number of consumers that buy new phones only (or "mostly") because of battery degradation? The article (granted, probably not the best source of information) has some numbers like "number of phones sold", but doesn't actually tackle the crux of the issue: how many of those…

I feel we don't have these data yet. What we do have is repair statistics for cell phones, where battery replacement accounts for 22% (in the US) of a $18.5B market. https://worldmetrics.org/cell-phone-repair-statistics/

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#799

Post by kikokikokiko »

chromacity wrote: post #796
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, bu…

Bullshit. This was the reason the industry gave for why they were removing battery replaceability support. Everybody hated it when it was first introduced, and to this day I only buy phones which have easily accessible ways to put a new battery on when the day comes. Fuck this BS of "people wanted thinner phones".

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#800

Post by techpression »

chromacity wrote: post #796
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, bu…

It’s also very hard to make them resistant to water and dust, I really like that I can wash my iPhone in the sink and don’t have to worry about it getting wet in general. This is a lot harder to achieve with battery doors, especially if they need to be as big as a phone back.
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