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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#181

Post by gambiting »

thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

I don't see how that's even remotely comparable. It's not like you can replace the battery in your phone with a larger one. You will be able to buy a new battery for your car, that's already guaranteed in the EU - but it will be the same capacity as what you got.

I don't know why is this even an argument really, like.....in a petrol car, do you expect to be able to fit it with a bigger fuel tank after 10 years? or a more powerful engine? Until very recently even software updates to the infotainment weren't really a thing, if you wanted a newer interface you had to change the entire car(I'm not saying this was a good thing, just that generally the expectation is that the product will work the way it was when you bought it).

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#182

Post by ezst »

functionmouse wrote: post #171
thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

it's all virtue signalling. Always has been.

Disagree. I want a replaceable battery in my phone. They can get to extensible memory next. And it's not because you don't care about something that you should remove this freedom from me. And don't tell me that the market will self regulate in the best interests of the consumer or other nonsense like that.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#183

Post by gambiting »

volemo wrote: post #179
ponector wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bought a car with some range, you are fine with it. Why you have to replace it with longer range? Should I be able to eventually replace gas tank with the larger one in my ICE vehicle?

Batteries degrade, you know.

Yes, which is why they are replacable, and Hyundai is bound by law to keep making batteries for OP's Kona for a good while even after the production stops.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#184

Post by justapassenger »

thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

Useful life of most of the cars is on par with their battery longevity, as long as you have proper thermal management and your usage patterns are not outliers.

Focusing on being able to upgrade battery (and to be clear - upgrade, not replaced/repair) is solving 1% problem.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#185

Post by fainpul »

mminer237 wrote: post #49
napolux wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

better than glued.

Heat guns and pryers are commercially available. I don't think this will change anything there.

You're wrong about that:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47835530

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#186

Post by theginger »

mentalgear wrote: post #58

I was looking forward to finally be able to easily switch out (i)Phone batteries again - after 20 years - but turns out the lobbyists managed to get a loophole in the law - exempting Apple & Co from making their phones more repairable / longer live-able. > If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt

What proportion of devices would need to meet this 80% rule? 50%? 90%? 99%? Could make a huge difference

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#187

Post by pastel8739 »

tempest_ wrote: post #161
nonethewiser wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems entirely reasonable. Embedded batteries have a lot of advantages. Cheaper, higher battery capacity, water proof, smaller, stronger. I think this will largely just make the mid to low tier android market in the EU shittier.

Citation needed. All of those can be achieved with replaceable batteries.

Citation needed. It seems pretty clear that a mechanism to allow a user to access a battery will increase complexity, making all the other properties harder to achieve.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#188

Post by datadrivenangel »

tristanj wrote: post #88
infecto wrote: post #45

I am simply not a fan of this type of legislation. It reminds me of CA bullet button. I also don’t quite understand the purpose. Official retail cost from Apple in the US ~$120. Third-party you can usually get it around $60. Sure the battery does not have quick accessibility but I can replace it pretty cheaply.

Agreed. This rule will likely be irrelevant in 5-10 years when battery technology improves, and it has such a huge carve out (batteries that maintain 80% capacity after 1000 cycles are exempt) every phone manufacture can get around it. Phone makers can meet this regulation by artificially limiting battery capacity through software to protect battery health. Or they could put in a 10,000 mAh battery and only allow the…

If the battery lasts 10 years basically then that's fair, but ease of repair is very useful.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#189

Post by realusername »

pastel8739 wrote: post #187
tempest_ wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. All of those can be achieved with replaceable batteries.

Citation needed. It seems pretty clear that a mechanism to allow a user to access a battery will increase complexity, making all the other properties harder to achieve.

Fairphone managed to do it, I'm sure companies with more budget than them can figure it out.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#190

Post by close04 »

bombcar wrote: post #129
close04 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has no chance to claim their batteries can have 80% capacity after 1000 cycles seeing how they never achieved this so far. Lying about it puts them in a world of mass recalls and fraud investigations.

Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. As a datapoint my iPhone reports 522 cycles and 89% max - from march 2024. I do use the "limit charging to 80%" feature which I suspect may become mandatory before 2027 ...

I don’t think “a cycle” is up for redefining. I hope these terms are defined in the law.

But that supports my assumption that realistically the batteries don’t last 1000 cycles even when charged conservatively. The last 9% will go faster than the first 11%, the battery already has lower capacity and needs to be charged even more often.

On the other hand if I only get to 1000 cycles by charging up to 80% then I’m not getting 100% of the battery, am I?

Dieselgate was caught by some dudes with an emissions measuring device. It’s not that extreme to get a number of iPhone batteries, test them to 1000 cycles and see if statistically they still retain 80% capacity. If they don’t Apple could be looking at replacing everyone’s batteries.

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