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Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

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Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#221

Post by alanspower »

camus wrote: post #130

it only means one thing : Surface / WindowsRT / Windows8 = "big failure". Not so long ago , he was seen as the next Microsoft boss , but firing him wont solve Microsoft problems , Ballmer is the problem.

EXACTLY.. i called this some months ago when i saw him trying to convince developers of APPs that Windows 8 in desktop PCs are just like any other tablet consumer and will buy apps. Which is not true.. Good he's out.. Now Ballmer has top leave as well. Surface should be launched all around the world in all stores to developers see any penny coming from the Store. Instead they did that freaky show in New York with just a few Surfaces while Apple threw a big launch for iPad mini selling over 4 millions in a weekend. Surface could sell that much IF microsoft made it available in all stores. GO Ballmer!

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#223

Post by funkyhomosapien »

psychotik wrote: post #148
colmvp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as a Mac only guy, I don't see how Surface is thought to be underwhelming. I think the tablet gestures they have, especially using the edges, are steps beyond the iPad and iOS and I expect Apple to copy them at some point in time. And then the actual interface is pretty nice as well: distinct, clean, beautiful. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple riffing on them.

How do you hype a product, and release the lesser of the two variants (RT vs Pro)? How do you go months without announcing a price, and then don't price it competitively? How do you release a product where your flagship apps (Office suite) doesn't run in the new paradigm? How do you not have a working email client? Need more...?

How can she slap? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdzi74GnPeI

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#225

Post by Overclock »

podperson wrote: post #215
Overclock wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a very good option for the ppl holding MS shares, but can do insane amount of damage to the IT industry - monetizing all those patents without fear of losing reputation among developers, students, etc. and without having to worry about new products being affected by other people patents. Team up with the super-corrupted music/movie/TV industry to make non-DRM devices and OSes illegal by bribing politici…

I'm not clear how this would do any damage that MS won't do as part of pursuing some other course. Does anyone doubt that they're going to milk their cash cows while pursuing (say) the mobile market?

Patents have bad reputation with the tech community, which means that if now MS presses hard Linux and other products it will have trouble hiring good devs later. But if they just support and milk their existing products they don't need good devs so much.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#226

Post by mkup »

msie wrote: post #3

I predict the Start button will make a return.

I guess consumer pressure on Microsoft tech support after Win8 release is above any limits. Lack of Start button, no easy way to shutdown PC, full-screen interface with no way of knowning which app is active and without easy way to switch them - all of these ones combined make up a perfect techsupport disaster. I wonder how large is average return rate of Windows 8 devices?

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#227

Post by commandar »

beagle3 wrote: post #209
JanezStupar wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trivia. Longhorn was supposedly a completely new architecture. The filesystem was supposed to be SQL Server based plus other architectual astronautery. It was an executive dreamed clusterfuck with no technical merit. Quite similar to IBM's Workplace project, which also never came to fruition. Both (Longhorn and Workplace) were the culmination of RDBMS hype, where companies left and right tried to solve every problem…

> Also it made me really appreciate how nimble and agile Microsoft really is. XP released in 2001; Vista released in 2007, essentially an updated XP with some Aero bells and PMP whistles. That it was only started in 2005 after throwing away the Longhorn fiasco stuff does not make Microsoft "nimble" or "agile" in my opinion.

>XP released in 2001; Vista released in 2007, essentially an updated XP with some Aero bells and PMP whistles.

What? No.

Vista was pretty extensively reworked under the hood. It featured UAC, new driver models, a completely reworked network stack, and a new, vastly-improved memory manager among other things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_features_new_to_Windo...

Vista was, ultimately, far less ambitious than Microsoft had intended for Longhorn -- which is why they essentially scrapped the project and started over in 2004 -- but it was still a quantum leap over XP from a technical perspective.

W7 is essentially a UI-updated and polished Vista (which is why the NT version number only bumped from NT6.0 to NT6.1), but even given the relatively incomplete state of Vista at launch, it was a huge step forward for Windows, and certainly more that "an updated XP with some Aero bells and PMP whistles."

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#228

Post by mattydread »

asveikau wrote: post #213
snprbob86 wrote: post #10

Ouch. I never worked in one of Sinofski's orgs, but I know quite a few people who did. I got the impression that a lot of old timers and under-performers disliked him. Most of the people that I really respected liked him. From my perspective, that's the best kind of "divisive figure" to have. Maybe he pushed too hard...

I did work in a Sinofsky org. I was an individual contributor and didn't have a flashy title. What I saw was a man that maintained a sizable gap between reputation/rhetoric and reality. The man who supposedly cleaned up Windows did so largely by taking credit for the work of COSD, which he didn't run. For all he would amusedly repeat the phrase "don't ship the org chart", we pretty much ... shipped the org chart. Dur…

You are exactly wrong on what Sinofsky said about work/life balance.

From http://blogs.msdn.com/b/techtalk/archive/2005/11/16/493549.a...

"The only thing I would say is that anyone who tells you how cool it is to pull all-nighters on commercial software or anyone who says "I live at the office" and means it, is really someone I would not want checking code into my project. To be blunt, there is no way you can do quality work if you do not give your brain a break. Since the 1940's people have been studying the quality of work people are capable of without the proper sleep, change in environment, and exercise. There are reasons why even back during Apollo moon missions they forced the astronauts to sleep and not run on adrenaline. So working at Microsoft does not push the limits like this--it is not good for you, not good for business, and not good for the customers paying you for your software. If a company is driving you to work crazy hours like this, either because you want to or they want you to, it is just uncool."

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#229

Post by asveikau »

mattydread wrote: post #228
asveikau wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did work in a Sinofsky org. I was an individual contributor and didn't have a flashy title. What I saw was a man that maintained a sizable gap between reputation/rhetoric and reality. The man who supposedly cleaned up Windows did so largely by taking credit for the work of COSD, which he didn't run. For all he would amusedly repeat the phrase "don't ship the org chart", we pretty much ... shipped the org chart. Dur…

You are exactly wrong on what Sinofsky said about work/life balance. From http://blogs.msdn.com/b/techtalk/archive/2005/11/16/493549.a... "The only thing I would say is that anyone who tells you how cool it is to pull all-nighters on commercial software or anyone who says "I live at the office" and means it, is really someone I would not want checking code into my project. To be blunt, there is no way you can do qual…

It's been some years since I read it so perhaps my memory is hazy. This is the part I found most objectionable:

> In other words, no matter how many hours you are officially supposed to work when you are new you will put in a lot more to get those projects done. That is ok. No, that is expected because you are going through the learning phase. Your learning is not happening on a practice field but is happing in the big show. So the extra hours and effort are worth it to you and the team.

Then later:

> Microsoft will feel a lot like college in terms of the hours you put in and the environment you work in. It will be fun. It will mean late nights. It will mean "hanging out". All of those same things. That was my experience and when I look around I see the same thing happening now.

Even though your excerpt makes what I would call a more correct point, I still think the above is uncool. Reading it several years ago put me off severely and coming back to it I still think he was wrong to put it that way, even if he partially redeems himself later. I read it as "it's OK and good for low-paid college grads to overwork themselves, but later you won't want to do that."

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#230

Post by zizee »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #194
zizee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vista is what was salvaged from Longhorn. That is very true. Re-reading cookingrobot's original comment I can know see that I misinterpreted his comment. I was thrown by the part where he wrote "don't remember Longhorn?" which made me think he was under the impression that Longhorn was a version of Windows released to consumers. it seems that cookingrobot knows what he's talking about here a lot more than you do This…

Sorry if I gave offence. We seem to be agreeing now anyway.

No worries SideburnsOfDoom, I'm sure it wasn't deliberate.

p.s.: your handle made me smile!

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