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NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

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Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#21

Post by platevoltage »

IronBacon wrote: post #9

One can buy right now a MISTerFPGA from aliexpress for around €150 and that can emulate both MVS and AES. On this side of the pond, a VGA to SCART cable is all that's required to connect it to a CRT TV. If instead one want the real HW, a working MVS PCB can be found for less that €100. A JAMMA cabinet would be the perfect place to use it, but with a supergun a CRT TV can give the same results. Cheap superguns can be…

This is what I do. There is also an overclocked core that drastically reduces slowdown on Metal Slug games.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#22

Post by platevoltage »

This is kind of cool, but is there an actual market for this? I kind of understand the Analogue FPGA based N64 systems that were released given that there are a lot of people with N64 carts lying around their house, but who just has a bunch NeoGeo carts besides collectors? I guess a multicart is an option, but at that point, why not just go with MiSTer?

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#23

Post by platevoltage »

fooqux wrote: post #2

FYI, SNK is owned by Mohammed bin Salman. I think I'll pass giving them a single cent.

I hate that we are in the era of Millennial dictators feeling the need to own things that they thought were cool when they were kids. I don't see how owning SNK could be considered a great investment opportunity.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#24

Post by mrob »

lamasery wrote: post #3

The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…

>or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog)

If you're talking about the waterfalls, I'm not convinced blurring was necessary or intended. RGB support was rare in televisions in the USA, but it was common in PAL regions via a SCART cable, and the Mega Drive had native RGB output. Furthermore, the waterfalls are drawn as vertical lines, which I interpret as representing individual streams of water. If it was purely a pseudo-transparency effect it would make more sense to use a checkerboard pattern, e.g. as in the spotlight effect in Streets of Rage 2.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#25

Post by 7jjjjjjj »

lamasery wrote: post #3

The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…

>transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog

That only worked because they expected to run over composite. Arcade cabinets used RGB which doesn't have the bandwidth limitations of composite.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#26

Post by tombert »

pipes wrote: post #16
jamiek88 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah with mister laggy measuring and my lg g1 oled (six years old now so it may have got better) in game mode latency is 8ms.

Same here, Samsung s95b QD oled, mister laggy tested it, as far as I can remember it's about 8ms. Also snac adapters by pass usb entirely and are pretty much zero lag as far as I understand. Retro arch has run ahead latency reduction etc, I'd like to see some comparisons of that Vs mister. I could do it myself but I've never got round to it. I've noticed that fiddling with latency reduction in retro arch really works…

I did the preemptive frames thing with Retroarch with Sonic the Hedgehog 3 a couple years ago, and I certainly convinced myself that I could tell a huge difference...and then I kept taking hits and dying just as much as I was without doing anything.

It's entirely possible that someone who is better at video games can tell a huge difference (e.g. speedrunners and the like), but I'm afraid that I'm not good enough at most games to be able to realistically tell much of a difference.

I might still fiddle with it a bit; someone told me that it helps a lot with Mike Tyson's Punch Out, which is a game I have never beaten with an emulator.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#27

Post by chongli »

tombert wrote: post #6
lamasery wrote: post #3

The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…

50ms is pretty high, even by LCD standards. I have one of those MiSTer Laggy measuring things, and when I have my cheap Vizio TV in "Game Mode" the latency is around 24ms, a little lower on the top of the screen and a little higher on the bottom, but still considerably lower than 50ms. Moreover, I think that OLEDs can get less than 10ms nowadays (though I do not have one to test at this moment). Since most retro game…

Since most retro games ran around 60fps, so about 17ms,

That’s an oversimplification. Many retro game consoles don’t use a frame buffer. Instead they render the game state to the screen on the fly, one scanline at a time, and they’re able to process input mid-screen because they read the controller input many times faster than 60Hz (on the order of 2kHz). In practice, this means input lag is way below even 1ms.

Lightgun games, for example, rely on very precise timing of the control input vs the CRT raster and simply do not work without a CRT.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#28

Post by corysama »

lamasery wrote: post #3

The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…

If you can run RetroArch at 240 Hz on an OLED in "game mode", you can use CRT Beam Simulation to get pretty close to the CRT feel for motion https://blurbusters.com/crt-simulation-in-a-gpu-shader-looks...

If you have an HDR TV, preferably OLED, and miss the CRT look, check out the RetroTink 4K https://www.retrotink.com/

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#29

Post by chongli »

platevoltage wrote: post #23
fooqux wrote: post #2

FYI, SNK is owned by Mohammed bin Salman. I think I'll pass giving them a single cent.

I hate that we are in the era of Millennial dictators feeling the need to own things that they thought were cool when they were kids. I don't see how owning SNK could be considered a great investment opportunity.

I don't see how owning SNK could be considered a great investment opportunity

It’s not. It sounds much more like a vanity or passion purchase. Like how Neil Young once invested in the Lionel model railroading manufacturer.

Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation

#30

Post by anthk »

tombert wrote: post #8
anthk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal Slug and Garou looked fine-ish with 25% scanlines on LCD screens and 50% on PC CRT's.

My first exposure to Metal Slug was actually in regular emulators, and I never used the scanline filters, so now when I use the scanline filters in Metal Slug they feel..."wrong". In my mind, Metal Slug is supposed to have really sharp, chunky pixels.

Not my case; I'm old enough to play it at mid-late 90's in both bars and arcade rooms.

And that's the problem with current pixel art artists: they have no idea of what actual pixel art looked like. Hint: look at Garou with at least scanlines (or maybe a bilinear filter) enabled. That's what's Garou almost meant too look in CRT, far closer than raw pixel art.

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