NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
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Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#2FYI, SNK is owned by Mohammed bin Salman.
I think I'll pass giving them a single cent.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#3The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are things like broadcast rips.
Then problem #2 with the display (mostly) is latency. Those CRTs were fast. Even 50ms of rendering latency is noticeable on a some of the console games that require very-precise input timing.
You get emulation latency (this may avoid that by using ASICs, at least); input latency above what the original hardware had, if you're not using the real thing (bluetooth...); any picture-conversion latency (this might avoid that, but I wouldn't bet on it) to digitize the signal into HDMI if you're working with real hardware with analog outputs; TVs that struggle to get under 50ms of latency, especially without making the picture look a ton worse; and then shader-induced latency if you're trying to make it look semi-correct. Like, getting it down to where it doesn't feel wrong is tricky as hell.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#4FYI, SNK is owned by Mohammed bin Salman. I think I'll pass giving them a single cent.
I hadn't heard this, but looks like you are right.
Makes me feel a little conflicted having bought one of those SNK bundles a couple years ago on Steam or Humble Bundle or something. Don't love the idea of giving money to someone like that.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#5The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…
Metal Slug and Garou looked fine-ish with 25% scanlines on LCD screens and 50% on PC CRT's.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#6The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…
50ms is pretty high, even by LCD standards. I have one of those MiSTer Laggy measuring things, and when I have my cheap Vizio TV in "Game Mode" the latency is around 24ms, a little lower on the top of the screen and a little higher on the bottom, but still considerably lower than 50ms. Moreover, I think that OLEDs can get less than 10ms nowadays (though I do not have one to test at this moment). Since most retro games ran around 60fps, so about 17ms, we're talking about 1.5 frames of latency for the LCD, and about half a frame of latency for an OLED.
With something like the MiSTer, you can also enable high speed USB polling, which I believe is roughly 1000hz. My understanding is that it doesn't work with all controllers, but it has worked with all the controllers I have tried it with.
The composite video artifacts are definitely noticeable though; I noticed the weirdness of the waterfalls in Sonic when I was playing it recently. It doesn't bother me that much but I could see why it bothers other people.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#7FYI, SNK is owned by Mohammed bin Salman. I think I'll pass giving them a single cent.
That's a shame, I've always had a thing for Neo-Geo and SNK games.
He won't get a cent when I play on my MVS carts on actual hardware, so there is that.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#8The main problem with playing older games in a modern media-hardware environment is the screen. You've got the problem that lots of them look worse, or even outright wrong (see: transparency-layering effects on things like Sonic the Hedgehog) on anything but a real CRT without some serious shader work. This is also true of older TV shows, to some extent, incidentally, especially if the only sources available are thin…
Metal Slug and Garou looked fine-ish with 25% scanlines on LCD screens and 50% on PC CRT's.
My first exposure to Metal Slug was actually in regular emulators, and I never used the scanline filters, so now when I use the scanline filters in Metal Slug they feel..."wrong". In my mind, Metal Slug is supposed to have really sharp, chunky pixels.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#9One can buy right now a MISTerFPGA from aliexpress for around €150 and that can emulate both MVS and AES. On this side of the pond, a VGA to SCART cable is all that's required to connect it to a CRT TV.
If instead one want the real HW, a working MVS PCB can be found for less that €100. A JAMMA cabinet would be the perfect place to use it, but with a supergun a CRT TV can give the same results. Cheap superguns can be found or built for around €30, fancy models can cost between €200 to €300 tho.
The carts aren't cheap tho, specially if original. I've only a battered "Puzzle Bobble" cart, it's a really fun game in PvP, but probably not the more iconic NeoGeo title.
Re: NeoGeo AES+: SNK announces reissue of retro console without emulation
#10Assuming this is well done, it's an extremely cool product. The original Neo Geo systems and cartridges are ridiculously expensive on the used market and bootlegs are rampant. Even though they're charging $90/cartridge, that's still thousands of dollars less than what a lot of these games go for used.
The biggest concern I have is accuracy. SNK wouldn't be able to just start manufacturing their old chip designs from the 90s again because a lot of the chips in the Neo Geo from other companies are no longer made, such as the 68000, Z80, and YM2610. This means that they'd have to make a new SoC that incorporates the IP from those chips. At that point there's no real benefit to the ASIC over an FPGA. It means the system costs less to produce, but if they find any inaccuracies in their new SoC design they won't be able to release an update to fix them. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'm not going to place a pre-order until they release more details about what exactly is going on under the hood.