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Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

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Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#211

Post by geoffw8 »

psychotik wrote: post #71
barista wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this point. Windows 8 is probably the most connected windows ever. The store, Skydrive ads, all are driven by services behind the OS. I don't think that Sinofsky opposed or didn't get services.

And Windows 7 had none of the services that it should. It's 2012, don't you think it's a bit late already?

A bit late for what? Out of the major OS's MS is the largest, I'm writing this on a mac, and would loathe to have to use a PC but you have to appreciate that for most consumers when MS delivers something it is right on time.

They (the consumers) are unintentionally blind to the landscape, this will be new to a ton of people and/or right under their noses for the first time. This is the time.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#212

Post by podperson »

Along with the departure of Ray Ozzie (thank goodness!), this actually makes Cringely's suggestion -- http://www.cringely.com/2012/10/28/steve-ballmers-dilemma/ tl;dr that Microsoft simply milk its cash cow for as long as it can and then turn into an investment fund -- seem like it may actually happen.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#213

Post by asveikau »

snprbob86 wrote: post #10

Ouch. I never worked in one of Sinofski's orgs, but I know quite a few people who did. I got the impression that a lot of old timers and under-performers disliked him. Most of the people that I really respected liked him. From my perspective, that's the best kind of "divisive figure" to have. Maybe he pushed too hard...

I did work in a Sinofsky org. I was an individual contributor and didn't have a flashy title. What I saw was a man that maintained a sizable gap between reputation/rhetoric and reality. The man who supposedly cleaned up Windows did so largely by taking credit for the work of COSD, which he didn't run. For all he would amusedly repeat the phrase "don't ship the org chart", we pretty much ... shipped the org chart. During the big re-org he seemed very precise about getting a fixed number of reports on each team and having a constant tree height in all parts of the org chart, but during the (overly long) planning phase and during development he never seems to have asked the right questions of the folks doing the Modern UI or WinRT, such as "dude, what the fuck are you building?", or "does this shit make sense?" He empowered what is in the end a very dopey PM organization. He and his people would also veto stuff if it depended on non-Sinofsky divisions. He was also a staunch advocate of not doing things right the first time, and letting it become someone else's problem in a future release.

I also recall he wrote in a blog post that it should be expected that people in their early 20s work unreasonably long hours and have no social life, and that expectation was clear if you looked at the rank and file of many important teams: lots of kids right out of college doing the work that you'd expect someone more experienced to have some role in, or at least mentor; I saw a fair number of regressions and crappy features result from this approach.

Years ago some commenter on the "Mini Microsoft" blog called him "The George W. Bush of Microsoft". I tend to agree.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#214

Post by Overclock »

podperson wrote: post #212

Along with the departure of Ray Ozzie (thank goodness!), this actually makes Cringely's suggestion -- http://www.cringely.com/2012/10/28/steve-ballmers-dilemma/ tl;dr that Microsoft simply milk its cash cow for as long as it can and then turn into an investment fund -- seem like it may actually happen.

That would be a very good option for the ppl holding MS shares, but can do insane amount of damage to the IT industry - monetizing all those patents without fear of losing reputation among developers, students, etc. and without having to worry about new products being affected by other people patents. Team up with the super-corrupted music/movie/TV industry to make non-DRM devices and OSes illegal by bribing politicians.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#215

Post by podperson »

Overclock wrote: post #214
podperson wrote: post #212

Along with the departure of Ray Ozzie (thank goodness!), this actually makes Cringely's suggestion -- http://www.cringely.com/2012/10/28/steve-ballmers-dilemma/ tl;dr that Microsoft simply milk its cash cow for as long as it can and then turn into an investment fund -- seem like it may actually happen.

That would be a very good option for the ppl holding MS shares, but can do insane amount of damage to the IT industry - monetizing all those patents without fear of losing reputation among developers, students, etc. and without having to worry about new products being affected by other people patents. Team up with the super-corrupted music/movie/TV industry to make non-DRM devices and OSes illegal by bribing politici…

I'm not clear how this would do any damage that MS won't do as part of pursuing some other course. Does anyone doubt that they're going to milk their cash cows while pursuing (say) the mobile market?

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#216

Post by mathattack »

benihana wrote: post #23

So I've always wondered what happens to you as a human when you're effectively fired from a high level, high visibility position. How does Sinofsky feel right now, emotionally? How does he feel professionally? Is this something someone shakes off as differences between opinionated guys in an organization? Or is this something that rocks him to his core? Does he go for another job right away? Or does he write a book a…

Getting fired always sucks, but at that level it's not a career ender. He's beyond financially independent, has a broad view of the industry, and a lot of contacts.

Each of these are viable:

- Run a medium sized software firm.

- Run a large division of a major tech firm. (For example: Software at HP)

- Start up something that would have been impossible in Microsoft's hierarchy. No need for outside angels.

- Become a hands on VC.

- Teach computer science and business.

- Run around the world for a year while figuring things out.

It has to be tough emotionally, but there are many options for talents like this.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#217

Post by mathattack »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #127
benihana wrote: post #23

So I've always wondered what happens to you as a human when you're effectively fired from a high level, high visibility position. How does Sinofsky feel right now, emotionally? How does he feel professionally? Is this something someone shakes off as differences between opinionated guys in an organization? Or is this something that rocks him to his core? Does he go for another job right away? Or does he write a book a…

Scott McNealy would occasionally send a note of congratulations on a promotion, typically he would say "One step up, one step closer to the door." That was of course figuratively true, and in the case of building 4 at Sun also literally true since the executive offices were right next to an employee entrance :-) As others have noted departures at this level are always much more nuanced than simply "this was bad" or "…

Profound and honest post!

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#218

Post by JanezStupar »

beagle3 wrote: post #209
JanezStupar wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trivia. Longhorn was supposedly a completely new architecture. The filesystem was supposed to be SQL Server based plus other architectual astronautery. It was an executive dreamed clusterfuck with no technical merit. Quite similar to IBM's Workplace project, which also never came to fruition. Both (Longhorn and Workplace) were the culmination of RDBMS hype, where companies left and right tried to solve every problem…

> Also it made me really appreciate how nimble and agile Microsoft really is. XP released in 2001; Vista released in 2007, essentially an updated XP with some Aero bells and PMP whistles. That it was only started in 2005 after throwing away the Longhorn fiasco stuff does not make Microsoft "nimble" or "agile" in my opinion.

Most mega corps never recover from fuckups of this sort. Microsoft thus far has kept pulling them out of the hat.

MS is not agile in the same sense as your YC funded startup is. That would be comparing speedboats to super tankers and in the world of super tankers Microsoft is one of the super tankerest of them all.

Nokia, RIM, Boeing, HP, Yahoo and many others couldn't pull a single "pivot" out of the hat all the while Microsoft keeps on dancing.

They are far from my favorite companies, however Microsoft and IBM prove year by year that elephants can and do dance. And what a gracious waltz that is. For an elephant of course.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#219

Post by fish2000 »

WayneDB wrote: post #196
cookingrobot wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you're being silly.. but reality is messier than that. Apple released a tablet in 1993. Microsoft released serious tablets in 2002. Apple again in 2010, and now MS with their own branded device. Reality is less about leading a trend than hopscotching the competitor.

Slight correction and additional facts: The Newton was not a tablet. Nobody referred to it as a tablet at that time and nobody categorizes it as one now. The Psion Series 3 PDA arrived on the market before the Newton in 1991, and had a sizable user base by 1992.

Right, it was a Personal Digital Assistant -- the emphasis was on handwriting recognition; much of the Newton's pop-culture legacy is how ceaseless the lampooning of this features' flaws were at the time (regarding which, I had a MessagePad 130 and it was all more or less true).

But so while it wasn't called a tablet and differed a bit from the near-Platonic contemporary tablet form, it's pretty close to a tablet in terms of UX, use-case, obvious apps...

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#220

Post by fish2000 »

sriramk wrote: post #68
barista wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courier : J Allard :: Surface : Sinofsky Both of them equally sad departures. The latter more so.

Courier didn't cause J's departure and neither did Surface SteveSi's. Besides, Surface has been out for a week.

Allard WAS Courier. Saying it didn't cause his departure is like saying that the dealer hitting 21 doesn't cause you to go over: arguably true but besides the point. Allard bet big and lost -- a sad loss in my opinion but a losing bet regardless.
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