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Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

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Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#101

Post by guiambros »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #58
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s kind of annoying in practice. For example you buy four tickets to go with your friends. But you get sick so you offer your ticket to a different friend instead. Oops that’s not allowed so now no one gets to go? Or you buy tickets as a gift for someone. There’s a lot of legit reasons to want transfers, outside of scalping.

I can't do this with airline tickets, hotel bookings, train tickets, dinner reservations, or any other kind of receipt that allows me to put my butt in a seat at a specified time. Why are concert tickets special?

I like the combined suggestions of three other commenters:

1) Allow transfers during a very short window (e.g. 24h before the event)

2) Allow full refunds up to x days before the event

3) Release a small batch of tickets 24h before the event, as a way of reducing the chance for scalpers to make money, and giving real fans a last chance without paying exorbitant prices

All three together offer a reasonable tradeoff. The tickets will go (mostly) to real fans, yet still giving you flexibility in case your plans change (work, sick, etc). And if you know well in advance, you can get a full refund, without having to worry with reselling, paying commission, etc.

Also prohibit secondary markets entirely. Similar to airlines, there's no reselling of tickets.

Of course, this is just wishful thinking. Too many intermediaries benefit from screwing showgoers, so this will never be implemented.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#102

Post by lmm »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
echelon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just ban the transfer of tickets and allow refunds? You buy a ticket, you show your ID at the door. Because everyone on the seller side - including artists - make money on this. If parties other than fans / buyers cared, it would be a solved problem.

I've seen quite a few artists opposed to it. Quick example: https://www.instagram.com/p/DWWlQS-Dhj7/

Artists will claim to be opposed because fans like it when they do so.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#103

Post by tshaddox »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #58
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s kind of annoying in practice. For example you buy four tickets to go with your friends. But you get sick so you offer your ticket to a different friend instead. Oops that’s not allowed so now no one gets to go? Or you buy tickets as a gift for someone. There’s a lot of legit reasons to want transfers, outside of scalping.

I can't do this with airline tickets, hotel bookings, train tickets, dinner reservations, or any other kind of receipt that allows me to put my butt in a seat at a specified time. Why are concert tickets special?

Pretty sure with air travel it's just a security issue, and all the other ones you can totally do.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#104

Post by nradov »

QuantumFunnel wrote: post #96
nradov wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option is to just go see live shows at local independent venues instead of letting Live Nation jerk you around.

None of the big artists people want to see ever play at those venues

That's exactly my point: boycott the artists who contract with Live Nation. Your life won't be any less rich if you go see a local band instead of Taylor Swift. People have so many options now and yet they're afflicted with this weird FOMO.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#105

Post by chadash »

hgoel wrote: post #93
autoexec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ban the transfer of tickets and allow refunds? You buy a ticket, you show your ID at the door. Early refunded tickets get resold online and late refunds are sold at the venue. All seats, including the best seats, go to actual fans instead of scalpers just hoping to make a profit while providing zero value. First choice in seats goes to the most passionate and attentive fans.

Alternatively only allow transfers within a very short period of the event. Anyone with a legitimate reason (giving to a friend etc) can work it out even on the day of the event. But scalpers have to take on a big risk buying up the good seats early, because they have a short window of time within which to secure a sale (buyers won't risk pre-paying, sellers can't risk prospective buyers backing out at the last minut…

What stops a scalper from buying early and then guaranteeing someone they will transfer the ticket on the day of the event?

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#106

Post by hgoel »

chadash wrote: post #105
hgoel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively only allow transfers within a very short period of the event. Anyone with a legitimate reason (giving to a friend etc) can work it out even on the day of the event. But scalpers have to take on a big risk buying up the good seats early, because they have a short window of time within which to secure a sale (buyers won't risk pre-paying, sellers can't risk prospective buyers backing out at the last minut…

What stops a scalper from buying early and then guaranteeing someone they will transfer the ticket on the day of the event?

How is a buyer supposed to trust that the scalper won't just run away with the money? And conversely, how is the scalper supposed to trust that buyers aren't just feigning interest and will back out at the last minute?

Even escrow systems don't necessarily bypass this because ultimately the buyer is likely spending on more than just the concert ticket. They're probably taking time off work, maybe traveling in from another city or country. So even if they might get their ticket money back if the seller backs out, by the time that happens, it's too late to get refunds on everything else.

And combined with the possibility of getting lower prices closer to the event (extra drops from the event, honest resellers who just can't make it, scalpers trying to cut their losses), even buyers wouldn't commit early to scalper prices.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#107

Post by paulryanrogers »

chadash wrote: post #105
hgoel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively only allow transfers within a very short period of the event. Anyone with a legitimate reason (giving to a friend etc) can work it out even on the day of the event. But scalpers have to take on a big risk buying up the good seats early, because they have a short window of time within which to secure a sale (buyers won't risk pre-paying, sellers can't risk prospective buyers backing out at the last minut…

What stops a scalper from buying early and then guaranteeing someone they will transfer the ticket on the day of the event?

Maybe limit total number of transfers among all tickets. Because it should be a small minority of legit transfers.

Scalpers should be less likely to take a chance their transfer will be denied, whereas to a legit customer and friend ticket is otherwise worthless and just a best effort anyway.

Or beyond the first X% of transfers you do more rigorous validation. Like asking for the original buyer to call in to confirm in realtime. Something not easily automated.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#108

Post by alistairSH »

coderjames wrote: post #90
Kirby64 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airline tickets and train tickets are because they want to identify the person, for tracking/supposed national security purposes. Also, you typically can transfer train tickets. Depends on the country. Dinner reservations: I’ve literally never had an issue “transferring” a reservation. There’s no verification, often, and the reservation tools typically let you change contact details. If I present myself as John Smith…

> Concert tickets are almost certainly in the 'dinner reservation' category. They have no need to identify me for national security reasons Admittedly I haven't been to many concerts, but 'national security reasons' seems like a reasonable rationale to me because a packed concert sounds like a great place to set off a suicide bomb vest for maximum impact. Have a cut-out who doesn't raise any red flags buy the ticket…

Metal detectors or whatever other measures are a more direct solution

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#109

Post by kube-system »

guiambros wrote: post #101
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't do this with airline tickets, hotel bookings, train tickets, dinner reservations, or any other kind of receipt that allows me to put my butt in a seat at a specified time. Why are concert tickets special?

I like the combined suggestions of three other commenters: 1) Allow transfers during a very short window (e.g. 24h before the event) 2) Allow full refunds up to x days before the event 3) Release a small batch of tickets 24h before the event, as a way of reducing the chance for scalpers to make money, and giving real fans a last chance without paying exorbitant prices All three together offer a reasonable tradeoff. T…

For most popular events there are enough people who want or need to make plans more than 24h in advance that scalping would still be profitable.

Re: Live Nation illegally monopolized ticketing market, jury finds

#110

Post by dfxm12 »

nradov wrote: post #95
autoexec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just ban the transfer of tickets and allow refunds? You buy a ticket, you show your ID at the door. Early refunded tickets get resold online and late refunds are sold at the venue. All seats, including the best seats, go to actual fans instead of scalpers just hoping to make a profit while providing zero value. First choice in seats goes to the most passionate and attentive fans.

Another option is to just go see live shows at local independent venues instead of letting Live Nation jerk you around.

These are getting harder to find, but it's worth it. When I was in high school/college, I didn't need a YouTube algorithm to bring hip music to my attention. I just needed the flyer with upcoming shows at the church basement.
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