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For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

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Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#91

Post by pydry »

zdragnar wrote: post #78
pydry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of nuclear power is absurd . It's 5x the cost of solar and wind. If you use electricity to synthesize gas and then burn that later to generate electricity that is still cheaper than nuclear power. https://theecologist.org/2016/feb/17/wind-power-windgas-chea... Nobody builds nuclear power because it's cost effective or green. They either have nukes like China or have purchased an option on nukes (like Iran or…

You need to overprovision solar and wind capacity by at minimum 5x for northern latitudes' winter months compared to the summer, plus another few multipliers to keep storage topped up, or invest heavily in HVDC and massively overprovision the southern states. For that scenario, nuclear is still marginally cheaper (at today's prices at least).

Northern latitudes have low population density and plenty of hydro power which, unlike nuclear power, CAN actually operate as a battery at a reasonable cost.

There is still nowhere in the world nuclear power makes economic sense.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#92

Post by mekdoonggi »

0xWTF wrote: post #65
mekdoonggi wrote: post #59

Extending the life of existing power infra is low-hanging fruit for more power short term, but the economics of renewables are just unstoppable. Article states 93% of new generation capacity was renewable which is good, but I can sense that nimbyism is growing towards wind and solar. Not to mention the animus towards China who has wisely cornered manufacturing of these. The US has shot itself in the foot because of i…

What's even more important is how solar, and to a lesser extent other tech, served as a gateway for China to accumulate electrical engineering, physics, and chemistry talent the US seems committed to offshoring by incentivizing universities to hire the cheapest available grad student talent (inevitably from China). We are training them and not our own.

I don't think the engineering talent was the bottleneck. The difference was the long-term planning and industrial policy of China.

I think you're giving the US Universities far too much credence, and the US myopic political situation far too little scrutiny.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#93

Post by pjerem »

stop50 wrote: post #77
UltraSane wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying humanity should never use nuclear energy just because someone might shoot a missile at it is incredibly stupid when CO2 emissions are causing climate change.

If climate change prevention is the target, then its also an no for nuclear. Nuclear reactors need tons of cement, the fuel needs an complicated and energy intensive process with a lot of waste.

That’s false but hey, you have proofs I guess ?

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#94

Post by 0xdde »

ike2792 wrote: post #71

I don't think this article did the math right. In the linked source from the article ( https://ember-energy.org/data/electricity-data-explorer/?ent... ), in 03/2026 combined generation from hydro (26 TWh), wind (53), solar (27.7), bioenergy (3.82), and other renewables (1.51) is 112.03 TWh, vs 120 TWh for natural gas. It's still an impressive number but it is still slightly less than natural gas.

I think you misread the solar number. The link says 37.6TWh solar with the remaining numbers matching what you wrote. That gives a total of 120.42TWh.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#96

Post by rjrjrjrj »

burningChrome wrote: post #34
RealityVoid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am a big fan of nuclear, I think the issue of land usage for solar is overblown. We use a lot of land for far less useful things. In the end, anything that helps us burn less fossil fuels, I am happy with.

You're also taking away farmland that could be used to produce all kinds of things. Most of the prime solar areas are the same prime areas for agriculture. By creating massive solar farms, you're at the same time, reducing acreage that could be used for range animals and other agriculture: Modeling by the American Farmland Trust (AFT) finds that 83% of projected solar development will be on agricultural land, of whic…

Fewer cows would be a huge environmental win. Beef farming is a major source of GHG. Also a very expensive/inefficient way to produce calories.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#97

Post by mekdoonggi »

ike2792 wrote: post #71

I don't think this article did the math right. In the linked source from the article ( https://ember-energy.org/data/electricity-data-explorer/?ent... ), in 03/2026 combined generation from hydro (26 TWh), wind (53), solar (27.7), bioenergy (3.82), and other renewables (1.51) is 112.03 TWh, vs 120 TWh for natural gas. It's still an impressive number but it is still slightly less than natural gas.

I am not seeing those numbers in the chart. For March, I see 37.6 solar, 53 wind, 26 hydro, 60.4 nuclear, 5.3 other, together for 182.3 vs 120 for gas.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#98

Post by philipallstar »

contubernio wrote: post #29
mchusma wrote: post #3

I do think the Iran crisis should continue to push countries towards nuclear + solar. Like Ukraine helped shift some in Europe back to supporting nuclear after foolishly shutting down reactors.

The wars in Ukraine and irán have also highlighted what a horrendous insecurity nuclear power plants are. A direct missile attack on one could be catastrophic. The idea that such will never happen is as silly as the idea that there will never be an accident or a tsunami. But passive safety won't stop a missile.

A missile hitting a coal power plant will also be pretty bad, and there's not a giant shield around it.

Re: For the first time in the U.S., renewables generate more power than natural gas

#100

Post by tialaramex »

dxxvi wrote: post #99

But the energy prices (electricity and gas) don't go down :-( Then "renewables generate more power than natural gas" is not very meaningful.

Power companies will charge what they can, and to be fair most of their costs aren't generation, the guy who fixed that HV line a block over when the power went out during a winter storm? He doesn't work for free. And somebody paid for all those huge metal pylons or, if there aren't any where you live, the even more expensive underground cables.

But, the other practical effect is that if you use less fossil fuels you're making the climate worse more slowly. Now, given we'd like it to stop getting worse just making it worse more slowly isn't the whole answer but it does at least help.

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