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I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

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Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#21

Post by mistrial9 »

carefree-bob wrote: post #8
kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

They were saying "don't write to us, talk to the people who own the cameras and ask them to delete the data". A company that manufactures video cameras is not the one to talk to when someone records you, talk to the person who recorded you. But a reasonable person would say -- the data is stored on Flock servers, not with the camera owners. And Flock would say, just because we sell data storage functionality to camer…

the way this has been addressed in complex product liability in the past in the USA is that the public-facing Brand Owner has certain legal liability for the product, despite contractors or supply chains. In this case, it appears that the Flock company is the brand owner and is public-facing.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#22

Post by kstrauser »

mminer237 wrote: post #19
fudgy73 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...

If you go to Rent-A-Center and rent a DSLR, that doesn't make Rent-A-Center responsible for the pictures taken by their cameras.

If Rent-A-Center installed the camera in a bathroom, I'd contend that it does.

Flock's cameras aren't in bathrooms. However, they're still recording people who haven't opted into it. ("But you have no expectation of privacy in a public place!" "You have the expectation that someone might inadvertently overhear you. You don't have the expectation that someone is actively recording you at all times.")

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#23

Post by kstrauser »

Glyptodon wrote: post #18
kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

I think you should write them back and ask that they provide you with a customer list and continually update you as they get new customers so that you may follow the advice they've given you.

Ooh. I like this.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#24

Post by ldoughty »

fudgy73 wrote: post #15
carefree-bob wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were saying "don't write to us, talk to the people who own the cameras and ask them to delete the data". A company that manufactures video cameras is not the one to talk to when someone records you, talk to the person who recorded you. But a reasonable person would say -- the data is stored on Flock servers, not with the camera owners. And Flock would say, just because we sell data storage functionality to camer…

AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...

But the data collected is property of the government and flock is not allowed to use that data for additional business gain (according to their statements)...

So they can't sell the fact that you're at Target at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday to anybody... Nor build profiles to sell to advertisers... And if that's the case that's very similar to cloud storage vendors.

If I access hacker news, and the record of my visit is stored in an AWS S3 bucket, I can't submit to AWS to delete my visitor record, even though the server, network cards, wires, and storage medium are AWS property, it was hacker news' website that generated that record and their responsibility to take my request to delete it.. AWS' stance would rightly be "talk to the website operator for CCPA requests"

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#25

Post by draw_down »

nekusar wrote: post #20

The only opt-out the citizenry has is with any of the following: 2x4 rebar spraypaint spray foam battery powered metal cutter And bash those pieces of shit to chunks or completely ruin the lens and solar. Republican community? They love corporate surveillance. Democrat community? They too love corporate surveillance. There is no "Peoples' Party" that rejects this garbage.

[dead]

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#26

Post by danielsunsu »

mminer237 wrote: post #19
fudgy73 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...

If you go to Rent-A-Center and rent a DSLR, that doesn't make Rent-A-Center responsible for the pictures taken by their cameras.

I think if it were only offline storage it would not be as big of an issue. A more accurate analogy would be renting a DSLR that automatically transmits every picture to Rent-A-Center servers.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#27

Post by [deleted] »

kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

[deleted]

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#28

Post by ratdragon »

kstrauser wrote: post #2

I wrote this. I had/have absolutely no expectation that Flock would comply with my request, but figured I should try anyway For Science. Their reply rubbed me wrong, though. They seem to claim that there are no restrictions on their collection and processing of PII because other people pay them for it. They say: > Flock Safety’s customers own the data and make all decisions around how such data is used and shared. wh…

maybe eff.org would be able to help you lawyer up or otherwise to push this forward. good luck!

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#29

Post by yabutlivnWoods »

mminer237 wrote: post #19
fudgy73 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Flock owns the cameras and leases them out [0]. [0] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-does-my-neighb...

If you go to Rent-A-Center and rent a DSLR, that doesn't make Rent-A-Center responsible for the pictures taken by their cameras.

Your example is apples and oranges. Flock maintains private infrastructure that stores data.

If the DSLR uploaded them to Rent-A-Center owned/leased servers it would in fact require Rent-A-Center to take the necessary steps.

As Rent-A-Center would be the only group with proper access to data storage they would have inserted themselves into the chain of custody, and thereby have such obligation to ensure others data is wiped from systems they control.

Re: I wrote to Flock's privacy contact to opt out of their domestic spying program

#30

Post by [deleted] »

ranger_danger wrote: post #4

To me this sounds like the equivalent of visiting a website that sells your data, and then asking AWS to delete your personal data when it actually belongs to a customer of theirs and only resides within their private storage. Would you ask your local ISP to delete data they provided to Tinder like your IP address? That doesn't make sense to me.

[deleted]
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