Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#151

Post by icelancer » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 6:13 AM UTC

aik wrote: post #145

icelancer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it as a product to disrupt the market. I think the product itself is incredibly underwhelming and would agree with psychotik.

Ok you both said underwhelming, but I'm curious in what ways you think so? Personally I think the product is incredible in many ways, and overall very overwhelming/impressive relative to my expectations, however to me it has two very core faults: 1. Performance. Many actions are perfectly fine, however v things like videos can be choppy, and even reading a Kindle book is choppy. 2. DPI of the screen. It's a nice scre…

Tablets are all about the screen, as you pointed out. The Surface is at least one model behind and is playing catch-up here.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#152

Post by undergroundhero » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 6:28 AM UTC

darrenkopp wrote: post #37

I hope this means that they start doing more .NET again, instead of going back to COM.

I hope so as well, the WinRT API is stripped bare. I was shocked to see how much of .NET's functionality they didn't port over to WinRT.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#153

Post by notatoad » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 6:35 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #79

GuiA wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a PC way of saying that he was not a team player.

I wonder what "team player" means here. Now I know absolutely nothing about internal MS politics. My immediate suspicion, based on how MS seems to operate, is that's code for "won't bow down to Windows/Office". I really hope that's not the reason. There have been so many times Microsoft seems to be unable to get out of its own way because they have integrate Windows/Office into something somehow . Maybe he was part o…

I really doubt "won't bow down to windows/office" is the problem here, saying as Sinofsky was head of windows. A more likely interpretation is that he expected other teams to bow to windows.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#154

Post by zanny » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 6:40 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #119

moe wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone else had to pause when reading that line in the letter? Julie has been a stalwart leader of building compelling “experiences” from her time on Internet Explorer

IE 3 and 4 were very well received in their own time. Its only IE 6 that overstayed its welcome.

And 7 and 8. 9 and 10 are still strutting around non-standard implementations of half of everything require custom code work-arounds. They still don't have full html5 / css3 support either.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#155

Post by josephcooney » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 6:52 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #79

GuiA wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a PC way of saying that he was not a team player.

I wonder what "team player" means here. Now I know absolutely nothing about internal MS politics. My immediate suspicion, based on how MS seems to operate, is that's code for "won't bow down to Windows/Office". I really hope that's not the reason. There have been so many times Microsoft seems to be unable to get out of its own way because they have integrate Windows/Office into something somehow . Maybe he was part o…

Given that Steve Si _IS_ Office/Windows (current overlord of windows, former overlord of office, with strong office political connections), this is probably not the case.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#156

Post by sbilstein » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 7:17 AM UTC

randomfool wrote: post #36

benihana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was his idea of an ideal organization?

He was a big fan of the triad- Dev, Test & PM, at every level. From what I experienced, at every level you'd have to get sign-off from all 3 for any features to be implemented. That, combined with Microsoft's incredibly deep org structure created a massive number of 'committees' to go through to get signoff for any work to be done. He was also one to dictate things from up above and it was extremely difficult to unde…

Microsoft was all about this while I was there. It was incredible how much permission you needed to do anything. When I left I found an almost uniform response from other ex-MSFT employees that they "just couldn't get shit done" while there.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#157

Post by sbilstein » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 7:19 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #46

xibernetik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PM role is not at all about finance or marketing. PMs at Microsoft are expected to be technically competent and depending where they're stationed, may regularly contribute code. Julie Larson-Green is noted for her expertise in UI/UX. If anything, this exemplifies a shift to focusing on the end-user.

> "PMs at Microsoft are expected to be technically competent" That has most certainly not been my experience with Microsoft PMs when I lived in Seattle. There were more than a few who had zero experience writing code in-industry, and many who I wouldn't trust with a product at all.

As a former PM, I can confirm that many of them are not technically competent. I would say a good number of my colleagues did not have the engineering rigor to get a good mark in any CS class with a heavy engineering/programming component.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#158

Post by sbilstein » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 7:21 AM UTC

curiousDog wrote: post #31

xibernetik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PM role is not at all about finance or marketing. PMs at Microsoft are expected to be technically competent and depending where they're stationed, may regularly contribute code. Julie Larson-Green is noted for her expertise in UI/UX. If anything, this exemplifies a shift to focusing on the end-user.

Sorry, confused Julie's bio with Tammy Reller's. She has an MBA and has indeed been leading the UI/UX efforts. Nonetheless, I still stand by point. I was an SDE at msft in OSD, so I know very well how technically competent PMs are and how much code they write.

Hah, as a former OSD PM, I found the opposite true. Everyone's experience at Microsoft can be really different though; the company is huge and each division itself is enormous.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#159

Post by ygra » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 7:28 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #154

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE 3 and 4 were very well received in their own time. Its only IE 6 that overstayed its welcome.

And 7 and 8. 9 and 10 are still strutting around non-standard implementations of half of everything require custom code work-arounds. They still don't have full html5 / css3 support either.

How do you fully support a mostly still-moving spec? Also what large points are missing now in IE 10 except for WebGL?

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#160

Post by dudus » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 7:32 AM UTC

benihana wrote: post #111

sriramk wrote: post #35

This is a stunning development and most of MSFT is probably in shock right now. It's hard to overstate the scope and influence Sinofsky had at MSFT. This was a man widely expected to be the next CEO and he had impact way outside his organization (the 'Sinofsky-ization of teams'). Also, his stock was rising inside MSFT (when you stay inside the company long enough, you can sense which executives are in trouble and whi…

Typical Microsoft of late. Apple makes a tablet, then Microsoft makes a tablet. Apple fires some executives, then Microsoft fires some executives.

Following your line of thought SteveB should die next year.