Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#31

Post by curiousDog » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:16 AM UTC

xibernetik wrote: post #12

curiousDog wrote: post #8

This is really really sad. Everyone must be very disappointed (Especially mini-microsoft). And the new head is a PM..heading windows engineering. More on Julie from Mary Jo: [1]"Larson-Green applied to Microsoft right after she got her business management degree from Western Washington University, only to be told no. But she did land a job at desktop-publishing-software maker Aldus working on the product support call…

The PM role is not at all about finance or marketing. PMs at Microsoft are expected to be technically competent and depending where they're stationed, may regularly contribute code. Julie Larson-Green is noted for her expertise in UI/UX. If anything, this exemplifies a shift to focusing on the end-user.

Sorry, confused Julie's bio with Tammy Reller's. She has an MBA and has indeed been leading the UI/UX efforts.

Nonetheless, I still stand by point. I was an SDE at msft in OSD, so I know very well how technically competent PMs are and how much code they write.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#32

Post by dm8 » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:17 AM UTC

randomfool wrote: post #13

Good riddance. I left the company because I didn't want to deal with his idea of an ideal organization. I figured he was a shoe-in for CEO and it was just time until everyone was under him. Unfortunately I think he leaves a large trail behind him- too many lower-level people saw no chance to escape his way of doing things other than to leave the company.

Could you please elaborate on why you did not agree with him on his organization plans?

I read his blog posts on their website and always thought he was technical and bearer of change.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#33

Post by snprbob86 » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:18 AM UTC

randomfool wrote: post #25

snprbob86 wrote: post #10

Ouch. I never worked in one of Sinofski's orgs, but I know quite a few people who did. I got the impression that a lot of old timers and under-performers disliked him. Most of the people that I really respected liked him. From my perspective, that's the best kind of "divisive figure" to have. Maybe he pushed too hard...

My understanding is that Sinofsky was just purging many partner-level folks. I'd be curious if that created a chorus of dissatisfaction, but I'd never heard of anything that would have caused his ouster.

That was my understanding as well. There are an absurd number of incompetent partner-level folks. It seemed that MAXIMIZE(TIME + BROWN_NOSING - CAREER_LIMITING_GAFFES) was an extremely successful strategy for getting promoted.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#34

Post by jemeshsu » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:19 AM UTC

benihana wrote: post #23

So I've always wondered what happens to you as a human when you're effectively fired from a high level, high visibility position. How does Sinofsky feel right now, emotionally? How does he feel professionally? Is this something someone shakes off as differences between opinionated guys in an organization? Or is this something that rocks him to his core? Does he go for another job right away? Or does he write a book a…

You can read Steve Jobs' biography.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#35

Post by sriramk » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:20 AM UTC

This is a stunning development and most of MSFT is probably in shock right now.

It's hard to overstate the scope and influence Sinofsky had at MSFT. This was a man widely expected to be the next CEO and he had impact way outside his organization (the 'Sinofsky-ization of teams').

Also, his stock was rising inside MSFT (when you stay inside the company long enough, you can sense which executives are in trouble and which ones are going up).

This is a unexpected move which is going to change Microsoft at a deep level.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#36

Post by randomfool » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:20 AM UTC

benihana wrote: post #18

randomfool wrote: post #13

Good riddance. I left the company because I didn't want to deal with his idea of an ideal organization. I figured he was a shoe-in for CEO and it was just time until everyone was under him. Unfortunately I think he leaves a large trail behind him- too many lower-level people saw no chance to escape his way of doing things other than to leave the company.

What was his idea of an ideal organization?

He was a big fan of the triad- Dev, Test & PM, at every level. From what I experienced, at every level you'd have to get sign-off from all 3 for any features to be implemented. That, combined with Microsoft's incredibly deep org structure created a massive number of 'committees' to go through to get signoff for any work to be done.

He was also one to dictate things from up above and it was extremely difficult to understand the reasoning behind them or offer any form of disagreement. Anyone who didn't follow exactly what he wanted, was out.

So basically you'd have committees of 3's (Dev, Test, PM) filtering and relaying every decision. The people who could work the politics would get promoted and the people who understood the details would get frustrated by the top-down ambiguity and falter or leave.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#37

Post by darrenkopp » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:21 AM UTC

I hope this means that they start doing more .NET again, instead of going back to COM.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#38

Post by randomfool » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:22 AM UTC

snprbob86 wrote: post #30

benihana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was his idea of an ideal organization?

I can't be positive what the parent post was referring to, but it's likely it has something to do with re-balancing the dev/test/pm/manager roles. Microsoft had started to get top heavy, so Sinofski had a lot of managers demoted to individual contributors and invented this odd "triad" system of dev/test/pm to try to keep things more balanced. It struck me as a passive aggressive and politically correct way to force s…

Precisely. From what I experienced, everything became decision by committee with the triads.

I much prefer the single BOTL (Butt on the line), with every meeting having a single decision maker.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#39

Post by snprbob86 » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:24 AM UTC

randomfool wrote: post #36

benihana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was his idea of an ideal organization?

He was a big fan of the triad- Dev, Test & PM, at every level. From what I experienced, at every level you'd have to get sign-off from all 3 for any features to be implemented. That, combined with Microsoft's incredibly deep org structure created a massive number of 'committees' to go through to get signoff for any work to be done. He was also one to dictate things from up above and it was extremely difficult to unde…

A friend of mine (another ex-softie) described the genius of modern day Microsoft to be taking C players and reliably producing a B product. The triad model seemed to fit right in line with that ideal.

Re: Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft

#40

Post by codewright » Tue, Nov 13, 2012, 2:24 AM UTC

snprbob86 wrote: post #33

randomfool wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Sinofsky was just purging many partner-level folks. I'd be curious if that created a chorus of dissatisfaction, but I'd never heard of anything that would have caused his ouster.

That was my understanding as well. There are an absurd number of incompetent partner-level folks. It seemed that MAXIMIZE(TIME + BROWN_NOSING - CAREER_LIMITING_GAFFES) was an extremely successful strategy for getting promoted.

gaffe