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The secrets of the Shinkansen

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Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#61

Post by tonyedgecombe »

0x3f wrote: post #4

It's a good article, but I think the "it's not culture, just good governance" idea is a little hand wavy. The two bleed into each other greatly. The fact that houses are more disposable and wealth is less intergenerational in Japan does a lot to tamp down the NIMBY issues that plague e.g. the UK. The UK is so far gone that the transport authority in it's largest city can't revamp stations or do add-on development wit…

>The UK is so far gone that the transport authority in it's largest city can't revamp stations or do add-on development without literal years of hand wringing. And even then it's often rejected or reduced in the end.

They just finished a line that traverses the whole city. It's 73 miles from end to end and carries one seventh of the UK's rail journeys (600,000 trips per day).

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#62

Post by Liftyee »

timr wrote: post #47
ekianjo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these trains are loud, and run basically from 4AM until 1AM every day Not that bad actually. You get used to it and even if trains are frequent they don't need 10 minutes to pass by your home.

I've heard people say that, but I find it hard to believe. I think I'd go nuts. And sure, they don't take 10 minutes to pass, but the busy lines (like the Seibu line I mentioned) are running at least 2-3 trains every 10 minutes, so they might as well be continuous. The houses built next to the crossing points, in particular, have always boggled my mind. BING BING BING BING BING....

I noticed when I visited Japan that the crossing chimes quieten once the barriers have fully lowered.

Just another example of Japanese attention to detail and human oriented design.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#63

Post by dandellion »

Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

Here in Spain a huge chunk of the population lives along the coast, so obviously what we need is a radial network along the coast, with a few spokes connecting to Madrid in the center. But for whatever reason it's impossible to make any trains that go anywhere other than the capital.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#64

Post by timr »

Liftyee wrote: post #62
timr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard people say that, but I find it hard to believe. I think I'd go nuts. And sure, they don't take 10 minutes to pass, but the busy lines (like the Seibu line I mentioned) are running at least 2-3 trains every 10 minutes, so they might as well be continuous. The houses built next to the crossing points, in particular, have always boggled my mind. BING BING BING BING BING....

I noticed when I visited Japan that the crossing chimes quieten once the barriers have fully lowered. Just another example of Japanese attention to detail and human oriented design.

Not where I am standing right now!

(I mean, maybe you’re right in some places, but it’s certainly not everywhere. Ironically, I happened to be standing next to a completely empty crossing, gates down, bonging away, while reading your comment.)

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#66

Post by aposm »

Shitty-kitty wrote: post #37
wahern wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the country is long and narrow The northeast and west coast metropolitan corridors are similar, and combined have comparable populations, densities, and distances as Japan. Yet we can't even build a single high-speed line. And for all the excuses about the difficulty of building rail through developed regions, the existing rights of ways and infrastructure in both the NE and California are comparable to what everyb…

The advatange they have is that all 4 of their major metropolitan areas are in a straight line across flat land. The enemy of high-speed is any diviations from flat and straigh. On he accela top speed can be maintained less then 40% of the trip.

All the major metro areas on the Acela corridor are also on a straight line, on significantly flatter land than Japan. Notice how the Acela never spends 10+ minute periods in long, deep tunnels under mountain ranges. The Acela primarily spends most of the trip going below 100 mph because it is operating on 100+ year old infrastructure that has only ever been upgraded piecemeal as it starts to fail.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#67

Post by discord23 »

vidarh wrote: post #40
razorbeamz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists are often buying paper tickets. There's no way for a foreign Android phone to use a digital Suica, so people with Android are stuck with a physical card or paper tickets, and there's a lot of outdated information online that the physical cards are in low supply (They were last year but this year they're not).

When we visited Tokyo last year, what stopped us from even trying was the online information we came across was unclear and suggested we could only get the physical cards at the airport and at some tourist office, and we forgot to look for it at the airport... I don't know if that is correct or not, but compare Oyster in London which is advertised at practically every corner store, so even if you get into town not kn…

> we could only get the physical cards at the airport and at some tourist office, and we forgot to look for it at the airport

Little over a decade ago I did exactly the same. I ended up buying a Suica card at Ueno station from a clerk, which was a bit of an adventure since she was eager to help but barely spoke any English and I barely spoke any Japanese. Together we skillfully massacred both languages with an ad-hoc pidgin and lots of gesturing. Due to an issue with my wireless hotspot I only had an old school phrasebook at my disposal, which was about as helpful as the infamous Monty Python sketch implies. The airport seemed much more convenient as a tourist since everyone there at the very least spoke basic English. At the time it was certainly possible to get a Suica card at a major train station, though admittedly not easy.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#68

Post by timr »

aposm wrote: post #60
timr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

I think a big part of it is also that (partly because of the necessity of building for earthquake resistance), Japanese construction is a lot more robust than American housing, and also tends to have extremely good soundproofing on windows and doors. Actually, it's most of the rest of the world, except the US.

> Japanese construction is a lot more robust than American housing, and also tends to have extremely good soundproofing on windows and doors.

Oh, you’re definitely engaging in Magical Japan, here.

While building standards have certainly improved in the past 20 years, the average Japanese house is built just strong enough not to fall over when someone farts. In particular, windows tend to be single pane, and you’re lucky if they block a strong wind, let alone noise.

I’m exaggerating a little, but not by much.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#69

Post by littlestymaar »

> the most striking institutional feature of Japanese rail is that it is privately owned by a throng of competing companies.

Knowing the author I knew it was going to be his main argument before even opening the blog post. And it's obviously wrong, these companies don't compete with one another, they all have a local monopoly. (The article itself acknowledges that and even acknowledges the organizational benefits of such monopolies, but the author could refrain himself from praising the virtue of competition nonetheless…)

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#70

Post by Tor3 »

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world"

That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever.

I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pay in advance, or not. I take my bicycle and go ten minutes to the nearest station, park the bicycle in the bicycle parking there, and off I go. As it's a small station I change to a limited express train (where I've booked a seat) after ten minutes, then, after another forty minutes I reach a big station and I switch to the Shinkansen and I'm off to Tokyo. I'm relaxed all the time. I buy a coffee on the train, and/or I buy coffee and lunch at the station and bring on the train.

Every other way of getting there is way more complex, and would take way more time.

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