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The secrets of the Shinkansen

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Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#41

Post by nephihaha »

Gigachad wrote: post #19
Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

There is no excuse for the US’s failure. Many countries have large areas to cover. China is a similar size and has massive HSR coverage. The US could too if they didn’t waste all the money on corruption.

"The US could too if they didn’t waste all the money on corruption."

China is also corrupt, but it is a dictatorship with massive central planning. Central planning leads to wastage and human costs in many areas but it is good at producing new infrastructure.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#42

Post by ekianjo »

timr wrote: post #29
wahern wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the country is long and narrow The northeast and west coast metropolitan corridors are similar, and combined have comparable populations, densities, and distances as Japan. Yet we can't even build a single high-speed line. And for all the excuses about the difficulty of building rail through developed regions, the existing rights of ways and infrastructure in both the NE and California are comparable to what everyb…

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

> these trains are loud, and run basically from 4AM until 1AM every day

Not that bad actually. You get used to it and even if trains are frequent they don't need 10 minutes to pass by your home.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#43

Post by williamdclt »

hirako2000 wrote: post #31
radicalbyte wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is far larger and far less populated, it's an economic backwater and a cultural dead end. Yet despite that they have rail connecting their country together.

So did France. There is a common factor at play with Russia. Has little to do with the country's shape. It's like saying certain rats solve the maze because the path is simpler. Except that the failing rats happen to have a different incentive.

> So did France. There is a common factor at play with Russia. Has little to do with the country's shape.

You'll have to make yourself clearer, I have no idea what you're implying

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#44

Post by nephihaha »

radicalbyte wrote: post #27
Gigachad wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no excuse for the US’s failure. Many countries have large areas to cover. China is a similar size and has massive HSR coverage. The US could too if they didn’t waste all the money on corruption.

Russia is far larger and far less populated, it's an economic backwater and a cultural dead end. Yet despite that they have rail connecting their country together.

Once you get past the Urals, most of Russia's development is along an east west axis until you reach Baikal and the the far east. Also as a Marxist dictatorship for some years, there was little emphasis on independent travel (cars etc)

To call Russia a "cultural dead end" is a bit much, considering all the great artists of various kinds that country has produced. In fact, you'll find that famous Russian novels like Anna Karenina and Doctor Zhivago feature trains as motifs.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#45

Post by ekianjo »

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #5

It’s fascinating to read but I have a hard time imagining a public western railway provider could evolve into a train based mega corporation doing real estate and health services.

Because most western train companies are nationalized or co owned by the state. They don't even have to turn a profit.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#46

Post by sparkie »

razorbeamz wrote: post #8

These mixed companies can be very confusing to tourists especially. I'm always answering questions from tourists who are confused why they can't buy a ticket to where they want to go.

If you intend to do a fair amount of travelling and your stay is Probably not worth it if you're only visiting one city as the pass is quite expensive. There are regional tourist passes though.

[1]:https://japanrailpass.net/en/

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#47

Post by timr »

ekianjo wrote: post #42
timr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

> these trains are loud, and run basically from 4AM until 1AM every day Not that bad actually. You get used to it and even if trains are frequent they don't need 10 minutes to pass by your home.

I've heard people say that, but I find it hard to believe. I think I'd go nuts. And sure, they don't take 10 minutes to pass, but the busy lines (like the Seibu line I mentioned) are running at least 2-3 trains every 10 minutes, so they might as well be continuous.

The houses built next to the crossing points, in particular, have always boggled my mind. BING BING BING BING BING....

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#48

Post by izacus »

radicalbyte wrote: post #25
Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

The Netherlands is a similar shape to the continental contiguous United States yet we have an excellent public transport system. Very good trains and every population has awesome cycling infrastructure. The US could have all of this and more in their populated areas. They're the richest country in the world. Why is the infrastructure so neglected? It's clearly a choice.

US army can deploy air force, tankers, soldiers and all the logistics together with Burger King anywhere in the world within days and somehow people that pay for it still think a simple rail in their home turf is impossible.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#49

Post by ButlerianJihad »

ekianjo wrote: post #42
timr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

> these trains are loud, and run basically from 4AM until 1AM every day Not that bad actually. You get used to it and even if trains are frequent they don't need 10 minutes to pass by your home.

I live in a unique community which is sandwiched between a public-transit light rail line, and a freight line as well.

The light rail can run a frequency of 12-20 minutes in each direction. The freight's schedule: who really knows?

But the freight train is generally inhibited from sounding its horn or bells near residential neighborhoods. So, unless I am really paying attention while awake, I cannot detect it passing by, no matter the size.

The light rail is audible from where I sit, usually, but only just. It toots the horn mostly as it passes, but it's not disruptive or annoying to me, anyway. I sort of enjoy the white noise it all makes. There are cars that do a lot worse.

I think that the architecture here is helpful, too. The buildings are clustered around a central courtyard, and really insulated from the road noise. At any given time, there may be folks splashing in the pool, or running the jets on the hot tub, anyway.

The light rail stations are a major convenience to living here, and the train noise is absolutely the least of our worries!

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#50

Post by walthamstow »

0x3f wrote: post #4

It's a good article, but I think the "it's not culture, just good governance" idea is a little hand wavy. The two bleed into each other greatly. The fact that houses are more disposable and wealth is less intergenerational in Japan does a lot to tamp down the NIMBY issues that plague e.g. the UK. The UK is so far gone that the transport authority in it's largest city can't revamp stations or do add-on development wit…

London is probably the worst-governed, or worst-planned, city of its peers. NYC has famously bad governance but at least it actually has its own government.

The national government controls all London budgets, the Mayor has no power, there's no legislative body for the city (GLA is not one), and there are 33 different borough councils that don't owe the Mayor anything.

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