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Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

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Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#201

Post by the__alchemist »

uhoh-itsmaciek wrote: post #58

In text boxes in some applications, enter submits the entered text, and ctrl-enter forces a newline (not at my computer, but I think Slack does this). In others, it's the other way around (pretty sure GitHub does this for comments). I don't know how we got here and I don't know how to fix it, but "bring back idiomatic design" doesn't help when we don't have enough idioms. I'm not even sure if those two behaviors are…

Sometimes it's shift enter too! I am having a hard time keeping this straight between applications.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#202

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #54
iamcalledrob wrote: post #39

As the author identifies, the idioms come from the use of system frameworks that steer you towards idiomatic implementations. The system UI frameworks are tremendously detailed and handle so many corner cases you'd never think of. They allow you to graduate into being a power user over time. Windows has Win32, and it was easier to use its controls than rolling your own custom ones. (Shame they left the UI side of win…

The author may have identified that "the idioms come from the use of system frameworks", but they absolutely got wrong just about everything about why apps are not consistent on the web (e.g. I was baffled by their reasons listed under "this lack of homogeneity is for two reasons" section). First, what he calls "the desktop era" wasn't so much a desktop era as a Windows era - Windows ran the vast majority of desktops…

[deleted]

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#203

Post by yoz-y »

uhoh-itsmaciek wrote: post #58

In text boxes in some applications, enter submits the entered text, and ctrl-enter forces a newline (not at my computer, but I think Slack does this). In others, it's the other way around (pretty sure GitHub does this for comments). I don't know how we got here and I don't know how to fix it, but "bring back idiomatic design" doesn't help when we don't have enough idioms. I'm not even sure if those two behaviors are…

Today I’m thoroughly confident that if I sit in front of an AI chatbot/TUI/whatever. I will invariably fail at knowing which key combo sends the input and which enters a new line. It’s maddening.

I don’t understand why we ever let plain Enter send a prompt out.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#204

Post by cstrahan »

uhoh-itsmaciek wrote: post #58

In text boxes in some applications, enter submits the entered text, and ctrl-enter forces a newline (not at my computer, but I think Slack does this). In others, it's the other way around (pretty sure GitHub does this for comments). I don't know how we got here and I don't know how to fix it, but "bring back idiomatic design" doesn't help when we don't have enough idioms. I'm not even sure if those two behaviors are…

Slack requires shift+enter to create a new-line, while in JIRA shift+enter creates a new-line instead of new paragraph, creates all sorts of confusing layout issues, and because the difference is invisible, it's hard to to figure out where/when you've made this mistake of using shift+enter instead of just enter.

Nearly drove me insane, until I developed separate muscle memory between the two apps/sites.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#205

Post by TeriyakiBomb »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #167
JojoFatsani wrote: post #24

Most software is not designed by intelligent and thoughtful people anymore. It is designed by hastily promoted middle manager PM/Product type people who, as has been mentioned elsewhere, simply were not around when thoughtful human interface design was borderline mandatory for efficiency’s sake. There is incompetence and there is also malevolence in the encouragement of dark patterns by the revenue side of the busine…

Also, in the 2010s a lot of old guard UX designers got circulated out in favor of designers who either had backgrounds in other mediums (e.g. print) or were generalists with little understanding of user interfaces or technical capabilities. This didn't help matters.

I'm in this comment and I don't like it

For real though, when UX became an actual official discipline wasn't too long before a lot of the arse fell out of graphic design and a load of them moved over. A lot of people from newer generations of UX/UI people are possibly worse, often just rolling out conventions wholesale with little thought. Hiding behind design systems and clutching Figma files like they're pearls.

Contrary to what the author says, actual idioms are more common than ever before. They've just cherry picked older examples. He's talking about an era of software where one of the Windows media player skins was a giant green head (No shade, I loved that guy) the real issue is in the superficial changes and the aforementioned lack of consideration when rolling them out

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#207

Post by Izkata »

weitendorf wrote: post #155

Guys, I found out about this technology called Cascading Style Sheets recently and I think it's the missing piece we've been looking for. It lets you declaratively specify layout in a composable, hierarchical system based on something called the Document Object Model in a way that minimizes both clientside and serverside processing, based on these things called "stylesheets". The best part is, it's super easy to cust…

You should talk the people behind the vanillajs framework, this sounds like it might work well over there.

http://vanilla-js.com/

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#208

Post by joebates »

bfbf wrote: post #51
JojoFatsani wrote: post #24

Most software is not designed by intelligent and thoughtful people anymore. It is designed by hastily promoted middle manager PM/Product type people who, as has been mentioned elsewhere, simply were not around when thoughtful human interface design was borderline mandatory for efficiency’s sake. There is incompetence and there is also malevolence in the encouragement of dark patterns by the revenue side of the busine…

It’s amazing how many blank stares I get when I, as mobile engineer, tell stakeholders that we shouldn’t just implement some random interface idea they thought up in the shower and we instead need design input! “But why can’t you just do it?” Because I recognise the importance of consistent UX and an IA that can actually be followed. Just like developers, (proper) designers solve problems, an we need to stop asking t…

Too many people think being good at designing a UI primarily means knowing where to put something on a page.

Re: Bring Back Idiomatic Design (2023)

#209

Post by masswerk »

carlosjobim wrote: post #73
uhoh-itsmaciek wrote: post #58

In text boxes in some applications, enter submits the entered text, and ctrl-enter forces a newline (not at my computer, but I think Slack does this). In others, it's the other way around (pretty sure GitHub does this for comments). I don't know how we got here and I don't know how to fix it, but "bring back idiomatic design" doesn't help when we don't have enough idioms. I'm not even sure if those two behaviors are…

Apart from a chat interface, when should enter ever submit your text?

The new idiom:

You are right, of course this is your account name! Do you want me to be keep you logged-in?

> _

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