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AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#261
History has shown that an alien invasion can only happen because of the internal competition and in-fighting of the natives. Colonial empires proved it only a few centuries back. The invading alien powers are fuelled by the inviting natives.

AI (and computing technology in general) is an alien as it defies all wordly norms. It can have exact identical copies, can replicate, can exist everywhere, communicate across huge distance without time lapse, do huge work without time lapse, has no physical mass of it's own,, no respect for time, distance, mass and thinking work, not a living thing but can think.... Just the perfect alien creature qualities.

Why are they allowed to invade Earth? The business goals, of course. To get a temporary edge over the competitors, until they acquire the same. But once everyone has the same Ai, there is no going back. Ai has established itself through the weak channels that are filled with greed, that can bribed by giving toys (business edge), in return to the keys to the dominance of human race.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#262
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you decouple it when the people who own it and are building it seem to be driven on increasing inequality?

The people say "tax the rich". Tax AI is the answer.

This might be a solution if there wasn’t staggering wealth inequality prior to AI.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the industrial revolution, approximately 90% of people worked in agriculture. In fully industrialized countries, that figure is now <2%. That decrease constituted a nearly full replacement of everything humans were doing, better and more cheaply. While this time might be different, I don't think this is a given.

Maybe it’s not a given, but it is part of the sales pitch for CEOs. A few others have announced layoffs due to AI being better and more efficient than humans. How much truth there is to it we don’t know for sure. But it’s not something to be ignored.

CEOs have been saying the exact same thing for the entire history of automation. Take computing, for example, an industry that's always been unusually amenable to automation:

— in the 1960/1970s, when compilers came out. "We don't need so many programmers hand-writing assembly anymore." Remember, COBOL (COmmon Business-Oriented Language) and FORTRAN (FORmula TRANslator) were marketed as human-readable languages that would let business professionals/scientists no longer be reliant on dedicated specialist programmers.

— in the 1980s/1990s, when higher-level languages came out. "C++ and Java mean we don't need an army of low-level C developers spending most of their effort manually managing memory, and rich standard libraries mean they don't have to continuously reimplement common data structures from scratch."

— in the 1990s/2000s, when frameworks came out. "These things are basically plug-and-play, now one full-stack developer can replace a dedicated sysadmin, backend engineer, database engineer, and frontend engineer."

While all of these statements are superficially true, the result was that the world produced more software (and developer jobs) than ever, as each level of abstraction freed developers from having to worry about lower-level problems and instead focus on higher-level solutions. Mel's intellect was freed from having to optimize the position of the memory drum [0] to allow him to focus on optimizing the higher-level logic/algorithms of the problem he's solving. As a result, software has become both more complex but also much more capable, and thus much more common.

While this time with AI may truly be different, I'm not holding my breath.

[0] http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#264
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War accelerated evolution, it’s why it exists.

So did compassion, probably in a greater amount. And yet the greater amount of resources goes into war at the expense of compassion. Humanity has taken control of its own evolution and no longer relyies on natural selection to be the driving force for change. Using evolution as an excuse to make bad and immoral choices is a poor argument and should be left back in the stone age.

Yes, the social darwinist approach inevitably lead to eugenical thinking and the human meat grinder that follows. We, as being with the capacity to understand harmful v. non-harmful behaviour, have a consequence to harmful behaviour, collectively: human suffering and the suppression of freedom.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can produce better code than most devs in the hands of a good dev. The bullshit code I see coming from juniors using AI..

I view it as a force multiplier, like a lever. In good hands it produces outsized gains. In the wrong hands it produces outsized losses. It just makes you MORE of whatever it was you already were.

I partially agree. I can see the before and after difference in colleague's code. It's night and day.

They're doing things now that they either flat out could not do before, or if they did it would be an giant mess (I realize they still can't really do it now, AI is doing it for them).

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#266
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people say "tax the rich". Tax AI is the answer.

This is interesting to see since on another HN post everyone is bemoaning how expensive it’s getting to use frontier models because Anthropic is massively throttling Pro Max Claude plans. That’s certainly not going to become more accessible to us normal folk through taxation.

The tax dollars can go to programs that support normal folk, when the vast majority of tax collected will not come from normal folk.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is actually a mass decrease in inequality, as much as the Gutenberg printing press was. It takes something that used to be the foremost example of pure bourgeois and intellectual privilege - the culture contained within millions of books and other instances of human creativity - and provides it to everyone for the cost of a few thousand bucks in hardware and a few watts of electricity.

[flagged]

Swartz died in 2002, decades before LLMs. It is distasteful to put words in the mouths of the dead by invoking him here.

Even local AI concentrates power in the hands of a few, the few who can afford the hardware to run it, and the few who have the luxury of enough time and energy to devote to engaging with the intricate, technical rabbit hole of local models.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree with and encourage this kind of academic distinction. However... Until people with billions of dollars behind them do something with that money to offset the financial hardship that they're knowingly - and gleefully - bringing to others... The distinction has no practical use. (And before someone says "that's the government's job!", consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and compa…

>consider how much lobbying money is coming from CEOs and companies Make lobbying illegal, I don't understand why it's normalized.

Who is going to lobby to make it illegal? Our system is broken and won’t fix itself.

Inequality is going to continue to increase until society collapses. If we want a better world we need to prepare for this eventuality by building avenues of popular action to return power to the people. Once the oligarchs have fucked up enough people’s lives, popular action becomes a realistic way out of this mess.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People currently assume AI will be an accelerant of inequality because all currently useful models (i.e. those potentially capable of mass labor disruption) are only able to run in multibillion dollar datacenters, with all returns accruing disproportionately to the oligarchs who own said datacenters. I'm not sure this moat is inevitably perpetual. It's likely computing technology evolves to the point of being able to…

> Everyone would have equal access to the ultimate means of production. You are right that AI can be a fully democratized commodity. The problem is that the current wealth inequality is not the result of AI. Musk became a trillion seeking oligarch not because of AI. It is because the entire financial system is designed to extract wealth from everyone and concentrate at the top. Democratic AI is not in their interest.…

>It will be violence from the rich towards the poor, because democratic AI is not acceptable for them.

Unless the rich somehow manage to completely stifle the progress of consumer-level computing advancement (all chip manufacturers would just collude to quit selling to consumers?) and exert an iron-fisted control over the dissemination of software (when has this ever worked?), I'm not sure how they could control the democratization of AI.

Re: AI Will Be Met with Violence, and Nothing Good Will Come of It

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you clearly don't understand my take.

I understood it. Nature has had an amount of computing power to work on this problem that utterly dwarfs the tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, amount of compute resources that humans have. Thinking that 10 years of Sam Altman is competitive with all of natural history isn't just out-of-control hubris, it's a complete failure to understand the ground-truth of the world we live in. You may as well try to pay a million doll…

Correct. At least someone here is able to read words and understand the meaning behind them.

The funny thing is that I am a sort of misanthrope. And in that, in this forum, I seem to have a lot more respect and optimism for human potential and ingenuity than the majority here.

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