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Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

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Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#171

Post by lambda »

mattmaroon wrote: post #162
foobarchu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle. There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that. And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

You may be right that they were political in that sense.

But also, they probably should have happened were he not a politician. He's been committing fraud and other white collar crimes for quite a while. Unfortunately, we go far too easy on white collar crime in this country. And he's a master of plausible deniability, where he effectively asks other people to commit crimes on his behalf, but in a plausibly deniable way with no written trail.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#172

Post by mullingitover »

jmyeet wrote: post #137
mullingitover wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be fine if high conviction rates reflected prosecutor's only bringing good cases. It doesn't. There is a huge amount of hand-waving following this assertion without any evidence to back up the claim. I'm not saying abuse of process doesn't happen, but this is just saying it can and then spelling out a big hypothetical without any proof that this practice is rampant.

It's hard to find quantative data but one clear example is DNA-based exoneration by the Innocence Project [1] > Among the many insights drawn from these wrongful convictions is the realization that a guilty plea is not an uncommon outcome for innocent people who have been charged with a crime: 11 percent of the DNA exonerees recorded by the Innocence Project pleaded guilty There's a thing called the Trial Penalty [2]…

> There's a thing called the Trial Penalty [2]. ~98% of charges result in a guilty plea.

The gist of this argument is that there are huge numbers of innocent people railroaded into prison, but in the bigger picture crime is wildly under-punished.

More than half of murderers go free.

More than 98% of rapists never spend a day in prison.

At the end of the day this is all a question of where you stand on Blackstone’s Ratio. In the US, even with the rate of wrongful conviction we may have, we stand solidly opposed to zealous pursuit of justice for the victims of crimes, on the argument that an innocent person might be punished.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#173

Post by rootusrootus »

mattmaroon wrote: post #162
foobarchu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle. There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that. And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

> they would not have happened if he had not become a politician

That is a little vague. Some of his crimes only happened because he became a politician, so of course the prosecution would be seen as political in that sense. What I would like to know is which crimes did he commit that were only prosecuted because he was a politician, which would otherwise have been ignored?

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#174

Post by actionfromafar »

didgetmaster wrote: post #130
actionfromafar wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what ypu tell yourself to feel better. But it’s not true.

Do you know ANYONE who thinks the same way about Biden's pardons as they do about Trump's? I certainly don't.

If we are wishing changes in law, I wish an impeachment would automatically trigger a new election.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#175

Post by rootusrootus »

dboreham wrote: post #152
lateforwork wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types here: (1) Pardons for crimes not yet committed. (2) Pardons for crimes committed, but not yet convicted. The first type will allow the pardoned to commit a crime in the future for free, which obviously should not be allowed. The second should be allowed if we have this pardon system at all. The second type became a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney from a vengeful administrati…

> a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney IANACL but surely there are other ways to protect people from politically motivated prosecutions? E.g. jail anybody attempting to direct the DOJ for personal or political reasons?

> jail anybody attempting to direct the DOJ for personal or political reasons?

When that person is the president and the Supreme Court has said they are immune from prosecution, you need something else to be a check.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#176

Post by lateforwork »

frumplestlatz wrote: post #165
lateforwork wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two types here: (1) Pardons for crimes not yet committed. (2) Pardons for crimes committed, but not yet convicted. The first type will allow the pardoned to commit a crime in the future for free, which obviously should not be allowed. The second should be allowed if we have this pardon system at all. The second type became a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney from a vengeful administrati…

> The second type became a political necessity, for example to protect Liz Cheney from a vengeful administration. Was it, though? It struck me as more empty political theater around an event largely defined by political theater.

You are asking if it was necessary to protect Liz Cheney? Have you not seen the lengths to which Trump is going to punish Comey? Trump even fired Bondi because she was ineffective in targeting his opponents.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#178

Post by didgetmaster »

actionfromafar wrote: post #174
didgetmaster wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know ANYONE who thinks the same way about Biden's pardons as they do about Trump's? I certainly don't.

If we are wishing changes in law, I wish an impeachment would automatically trigger a new election.

That's all we need. Every election followed by a dozen impeachment trials initiated by the losing party.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#179

Post by tredre3 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #162
foobarchu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle. There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that. And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

> I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician

His wife in the 1990s accused him of rape and intended to sue him as part of the divorce proceedings. She changed her words when she obtained a generous divorce settlement, moving from outright rape to "not in the criminal sense, I just felt violated".

That was over 20 years before Trump gained political relevance.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#180

Post by Spooky23 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #162
foobarchu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle. There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that. And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

Well, yeah. When you turn public office into an ATM for your friends and family, one would expect that.
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