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Non-hiring Practices

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Re: Non-hiring Practices

#111

Post by batgaijin »

mattjaynes wrote: post #93
edw519 wrote: post #72

It is not merely rude but evil that anyone accepts a status quo of ignoring the unhired. +1000000 I have not often been in the job market, but every time I have, I've been stunned by this practice: Run an ad, get a bunch of resumes, ignore many of them. #1 Get this, all prospective employers: If you have time to run an ad, YOU HAVE TIME TO ACKNOWLEDGE EVERY RESPONSE. The typical response I usually get: "But we got so…

I love 37Signals - their products and their content, but this is the biggest issue I have with them - ignoring applicants. I've never shared the story of my efforts in applying to 37Signals, but this seems like a great time :) About 6 months ago, 37Signals advertised for a dedicated Conversion guy/gal: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3175-were-hiring-help-us-sign... This was very exciting for me. I'd been a long-time…

That's really not cool, they should have contacted you out of respect for your efforts.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#112

Post by pandaman »

I cannot speak for other industries but in mine, video games, this practice seems to be formed by the 3d party recruiters in order to collect fees.

Applying to any company's ad for an engineering position rarely produces any response while in the same time every engineer is hounded by recruiters even while not looking for a job. You can apply, wait for weeks with no response then call an agency recruiter of your choice and have a phone interview scheduled in 2 days tops.

Looking at recruiters in my Linkedin network I can see how most of them move between 3d party agencies and contract/staff HR positions at the studios so I imagine there are many connections between internal and external HR. With the recruiting fees being 10s of thousand dollars and HR people paid peanuts it is statistically unlikely that most of them stay honest.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#113

Post by wjamesg »

I feel strongly about this. As a relatively recent college graduate who has has applied to dozens of jobs over many months, I can confirm that non-response has definitely been the status quo in my experience. Until I got numb to rejection and because accustomed to the status quo, I would feel compelled to seek out hiring managers or HR and ask, "Why don't you have the decency to even acknowledge my application status?" Instead, of course, I would simply inquire about "following up" on my application in the event that this was even possible to do.

"Go to our website" is the new mantra for hiring employers. And that's fine, but I'm stunned that many can't be the least bit bothered to set up some sort of response system. "Overwhelming number of applicants" is no excuse in the day of email...even an automated message, if phrased thoughtfully, would suffice perfectly fine.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#114

Post by slurgfest »

omnisci wrote: post #106
diiq wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. If it's an imperative for the hire-er to say "no thanks", it's just as important for the unhired to be polite, too, to say "thanks for your time" and move on.

Agreed. Also, at some level, hearing those responses is a good thing. If I was hiring and someone started crying/complaining about my non-interest, I'd keep their name on file as someone to never, ever hire. Don't want that kind of person working with/for/around me. Sometimes bad replies are helpful, especially if you are in a very small field.

What is "that kind of person"?

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#115

Post by wjamesg »

swang wrote: post #50

I've had various experiences of good and bad HR/internal recruiters but the one that really deflated me was with one of the larger Ruby companies in the Bay Area. I applied through a resume website, applying to 4 positions that I thought fit what I could do. I got a email/call from their recruiter, then I did a technical phone screen and passed. Due to scheduling I was in the Bay Area a day later so I had a 45 minute…

Sadly, I have found this to be standard procedure these days.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#116

Post by qeorge »

Devil's advocate here (and an employer)..

Its common for thousands of applicants to respond to a posting, many of whom are not vaguely qualified. So when a position is filled, its not uncommon to be turning down several thousand people.

Honestly, do you want to send a disappointing email to 3000 people and then deal with the responses? More importantly, do you have time? Remember, wasting time on the wrong problems is a sure-fire way to kill your business.

That said, if you've responded to a candidate at all, much less had an interview of any kind - then absolutely, you must follow-up. Those people have good reason to believe you might be an opportunity for them, and you owe it to them to respond one way or the other ASAP.

Sidebar: the current situation is awful for employers. Some start-up, PLEASE fix this. A job board where candidates can only submit 1 application per day would be a tremendous step in the right direction.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#117

Post by omnisci »

slurgfest wrote: post #114
omnisci wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Also, at some level, hearing those responses is a good thing. If I was hiring and someone started crying/complaining about my non-interest, I'd keep their name on file as someone to never, ever hire. Don't want that kind of person working with/for/around me. Sometimes bad replies are helpful, especially if you are in a very small field.

What is "that kind of person"?

Someone who tells a hiring agent that they won't be able to pay their rent if they don't get this job.

THAT kind of person.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#118

Post by FiddlerClamp »

qeorge wrote: post #116

Devil's advocate here (and an employer).. Its common for thousands of applicants to respond to a posting, many of whom are not vaguely qualified. So when a position is filled, its not uncommon to be turning down several thousand people. Honestly, do you want to send a disappointing email to 3000 people and then deal with the responses? More importantly, do you have time? Remember, wasting time on the wrong problems i…

I can say that it's been fairly standard for me to be interviewed (a few times in one case) and then having the firm never contact me again, and not even answer a brief email asking about progress.

This in marketing departments for high tech firms, mind you.

Clearly, they a) don't care, and b) know they can get away with it.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#119

Post by dennisgorelik »

mchannon wrote: post #76
edw519 wrote: post #72

It is not merely rude but evil that anyone accepts a status quo of ignoring the unhired. +1000000 I have not often been in the job market, but every time I have, I've been stunned by this practice: Run an ad, get a bunch of resumes, ignore many of them. #1 Get this, all prospective employers: If you have time to run an ad, YOU HAVE TIME TO ACKNOWLEDGE EVERY RESPONSE. The typical response I usually get: "But we got so…

Hate to play devil's advocate here, but shaming nonresponsive would-be employers has been tried and has failed many times before. If an employer has time to run an ad, that means they're short-staffed and pressed for time. Sending heartfelt thank-you's, even at five seconds apiece, will not fix problems on the employer's end. It is not their job to make rejected applicants feel better. Employee money and employee tim…

How exactly would you disrupt that hiring system? I was thinking about collecting job seekers feedback "Did you get reply from recruiter?".

But that may disappoint recruiters, and they are paying customers, not the job seekers.

Re: Non-hiring Practices

#120

Post by mchannon »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #119
mchannon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to play devil's advocate here, but shaming nonresponsive would-be employers has been tried and has failed many times before. If an employer has time to run an ad, that means they're short-staffed and pressed for time. Sending heartfelt thank-you's, even at five seconds apiece, will not fix problems on the employer's end. It is not their job to make rejected applicants feel better. Employee money and employee tim…

How exactly would you disrupt that hiring system? I was thinking about collecting job seekers feedback "Did you get reply from recruiter?". But that may disappoint recruiters, and they are paying customers, not the job seekers.

That's the billion dollar question.

Despite the heartache, most job seekers could care less about getting a dear john, especially weeks or months following.

HR's problems as an industry run far deeper. Employers spending too much time and money for too little long-term result; applicants spending too much time (and money!) for too little long-term result. Find a way to fix that wicket and this other little problem becomes that much less important.

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