211–220 of 350 posts
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There are already abstractions that allows you to deal with IPv6 without actually typing in the addresses. It's the DNS, but every time this topic pops up, someone rejects DNS and proceeds to continue sprouting something about how IPv6 is unusable because you can't memorize the addresses.
What happens when DNS is down
Here comes the flood of IPv6 evangelists who thinks everyone is confused about NAT and firewalls. I don't know where they get their talking points, but they descend onto these threads with their sanctimony. "Oh, you must be confused about how NAT works, allow me to educate you." It's very tiresome.
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And once again: any anti-IPv6 people could have already learned proper IPv6, if they directed 10% of their efforts (spent on bashing the IPv6 address format) to learn IPv6 instead.
- In the grand scheme of things, the IP address itself is of very little importance. It was given undue attention because of how IPv4 was inherently limited in address space.
- If you simply needed a way to name your machines, what are you doing not using the (m)DNS? You know, services literally with the word "Name" inside their name?
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> What's the difference, other than port forwarding? Does NAT cause some sort of unique issue that makes existence miserable? The difference is that your home router does not get a public IP on its WAN interface, but perhaps the non-publicly-routable 100.64.0.0/10 [1] with CG-NAT. So if you don't have a public IP address, how exactly are you supposed to forward anything? What is the other end supposed to connect to a…
> The difference is that your home router does not get a public IP on its WAN interface, but perhaps the non-publicly-routable 100.64.0.0/10 [1] with CG-NAT. Yes...? I know that, but does that cause any issues in practice other than death of P2P? > So if you don't have a public IP address, how exactly are you supposed to forward anything? What is the other end supposed to connect to as an IP address? I already mentio…
Well:
> If you’re a gamer using PS5, Xbox, or PC in 2025, running into Double NAT or CGNAT port forwarding issues can make online play nearly impossible. Many 5G home internet and satellite services (like T-Mobile Home Internet and Starlink) put users behind carrier-grade NAT, which blocks direct connections and port forwarding. The good news? There are still workarounds that can open up your connection for smoother online gaming.
* https://www.modemguides.com/blogs/modemguides-blog/double-na...
See also:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier-grade_NAT#Disadvantage...
When we went from dial-up speeds to DSL/cable to fibre we were able to have all sorts new applications due to higher bandwidth. Smartphones are capable of all sorts of things because they're always online: back in the day people used to talk about "being online" and saying "sorry, I was offline", because you only had connectivity at the office or at home (where you dialed into your ISP).
What kind of applications and services are not being invented because we're stuck with the current non-P2P / centralized setup of IPv4+NAT?
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IPv4 came out in 1982 and was designed for every device to have a unique public address. Protocols like FTP were designed to literally pass an IP address to connect directly to. As addresses started running out, the NAT RFC was published in 1994 and described NAT as a "short-term solution". NAT was never meant to be an integral part of IPv4. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1631 NAT broke a ton of things which requi…
So you actually agree with me, that making all addresses public was stupid to begin with. It was stupid on IPv4 and it remain stupid on IPv6, yet we already have experience from IPv4 that it was stupid.
If an address is not public how can you start an connection from it, or end a connection at it? A web server needs a public address if you want to have people reach it. And you, at some point, also have to have a public address if you want to connect to pubic services: either on your end-host, at your CPE/router's WAN interface, or on an interface of your ISP's CG-NAT box.
But having a public address on your end-host also allows for much more functionality than if you were stuck behind CPE-NAT or CG-NAT. Now, you don't have to use this functionality—just like how I didn't when my printer gets an publicly addressable (but not publicly reachable) IPv6 address—but it opens up various possibilities.
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I have never seen any situation where this is not already necessary other than UPnP which already almost never works reliably. A publicly-addressable relay is already practically non-negotiable for anything over the internet.
uPnP works fine though? What was the problem you had with it?
I'm surprised how few people are talking about ULAs. For any home network where you don't have a reserved global address space from your ISP, it makes sense to configure a ULA on your router and use it for all internal hosts, and the ISP assigned address is only used for Internet access. This does not require NAT/Npt and you have the best of both worlds.
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What's the difference, other than port forwarding? Does NAT cause some sort of unique issue that makes existence miserable?
>other than port forwarding >other Well you just handwaved away the most significant difference between NAT and native IP, obviously there won't be any major difference to discuss about anymore! No, we can't ignore port forwarding. The key thing to realize about NAT is that someone owns the NAT. Back then, the NAT lived inside each of the home routers, so even if you have a "strict" NAT (endpoint-dependent mapping NA…
Port forwarding is nice, but everyone already knows you can hardly run a server at home (even in countries where port forwarding is standard). It's been this way for as long as I can remember. So yes I handwave it away because it doesn't matter. If that's the only drawback to CG-NAT (other than single IP address bans applying to entire nations or something) I hardly understand why it warrants treatment as such a terrible awful disaster.
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> The difference is that your home router does not get a public IP on its WAN interface, but perhaps the non-publicly-routable 100.64.0.0/10 [1] with CG-NAT. Yes...? I know that, but does that cause any issues in practice other than death of P2P? > So if you don't have a public IP address, how exactly are you supposed to forward anything? What is the other end supposed to connect to as an IP address? I already mentio…
> Yes...? I know that, but does that cause any issues in practice other than death of P2P? Well: > If you’re a gamer using PS5, Xbox, or PC in 2025, running into Double NAT or CGNAT port forwarding issues can make online play nearly impossible. Many 5G home internet and satellite services (like T-Mobile Home Internet and Starlink) put users behind carrier-grade NAT, which blocks direct connections and port forwarding…
I don't know? I've never had CG-NAT and yet I've never seen a piece of software that takes advantage of that except maybe for games that use UPnP to open ports.
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> I have multiple static IPv4 addresses and they have suited me just fine for decades IPv6 is for the people (countries, continents) who did not get in early on the IPv4 address gold rush. Your take is basically "got mine, F you".
Or ... people can use the DoD/Mod and assorted other space to get their IPv4 allocations. There is a ton of unused space in IPv4. Reserved, allocated but entirely unused. Also take back some /8's from greedy companies that don't need all that space. stares at HP When I say take I mean take as in a forceful annex and a timeline.
Someone did the math on this:
> Now, average daily assignment rates have been running at above 10 /8s per year, for 2010, and approached 15 /8s towards the end. This means any reclamation effort has to recover at least 15 /8s per year just to break even on 2010’s growth. That’s 5.9% of the total IPv4 address space, or 6.8% of the assignable address space. Is it feasible to be able to reclaim that much address space? Even if there were low-hanging fruit to cover the first year of new demand, what about there-after? Worse, demand for address space has been growing supra-linearly, particularly in Asia and Latin America. So it seems highly unlikely that any reclamation project can buy anything more than a years worth of time (and reclamation itself takes time).
* https://paul.jakma.org/2011/02/03/why-dont-we-just-reclaim-u...
There are 'only four billion IPv4 addresses, and there are eight billion people on the planet. There are just as many smartphones (I have two: personal and work):
* https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/04/charted-there-are-mo...
Even if you (CG-)NAT an IPv4 address for some number of people, you still need to have IPv4 addresses for public services (web, mail, NTP, etc).
There is no scenario where 2^32 addresses is enough for humanity's needs: as some point you need to go to a protocol with more that 32 bits of address space.
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Not only that, but not everyone will even have any other choices. The last apartment I was in literally only had one ISP option; I literally would check every six months or so with other ISPs that were in the area because of the fairly frequent outages, and every time they all said that they couldn't offer me service at my address. (This didn't stop them from filling my mailbox with spam all the time though of course…
any idea why no one else could service the building? Ive usually had option of verizon or optimum when ive rented, though my experience has been queens and long island