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IPv6 is the only way forward

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Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#191

Post by direwolf20 »

gertrunde wrote: post #176
magicalhippo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I did not say "Because pfSense, does really bad things." How pfSense works is fairly reasonable if every IPv6 deployment had been as the original designers intended, ie you have a static prefix. It's just that the way IPv6 ended up getting deployed in practice was often not aligned with that original vision. And that has been a large source of IPv6 frustration.

There's a few things here that are a bit iffy tbh! I can't see why an ISP is dynamically changing the IPv6 addressing for a client, but if that's what is going on, then v6 NPT is your friend (RFC6296 - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6296 ). But pfsense's behaviour is a bit iffy too, unless when you say 'public IP', you mean the IPv6 address being used on the pfsense facing the clients? (I'm assuming it's us…

It's a legal requirement in Europe for privacy. A long term static address is a personal identifier.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#192

Post by wao0uuno »

voxadam wrote: post #190
wao0uuno wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dismiss IPv6 because my ISP doesn't support it.

I dismiss ISPs that don't support IPv6.

I'm not signing up for a new contract with a different company to get the same speeds at higher price and IPv6 that is pretty much useless as many major websites don't even work with it. It will take at least another 15 years before I will consider using IPv6 at home.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#193

Post by redserk »

MaKey wrote: post #180
nesarkvechnep wrote: post #167

Reading the comments, it looks like some people dismiss IPv6 just because they need to sit down and learn a couple of new things.

Yeah, it's always the same with IPv6 discussions. The main points being: 1. IPv6 addresses are too long to remember 2. IPv6 doesn't need NAT and people are uncomfortable with their devices having a public address as they see NAT as an additional layer of security

If someone is still using the “remembering IP addresses” argument in 2026 (or at any point in the 21st century), I question their technical competence in configuring a network correctly.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#194

Post by _bernd »

lunar_rover wrote: post #162
rkagerer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is without even getting into learning the new (old?) paradigm of "exposing" all addresses to the whole internet. I realize "NAT" is not equivalent to "firewall", but placing them at the same boundary made things simple to understand conceptually. I for one never had trouble opening/forwarding ports (and liked the control it provided over what goes in and out, especially in the days before it all just became HTTP…

NAT also solves the dynamic address issue. With GUA I need to deal with both dynamic prefix and randomised suffix that can be changed by seemingly unrelated things when opening ports to the internet.

That's why server use a static suffix and do slaac to get their prefix. It's really as simple as that.

Regarding firewall policies:

just because most network OS are plain dumb, does not implies that's the fault of IPv6.

A zone based firewall solves that already. And for instance OpenWrt fw4 can make rules for suffixes in a zone too.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#195

Post by general1465 »

juliangmp wrote: post #184
general1465 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because IPv4 is logical and makes sense. First thing which IPv6 came up with? No NATs everything will have a public address. It turned out that this was hare brained idea so let's just cover it up with firewall. However misconfigured firewall means that everything is open... IPv6 has been designed by people who were unable to think further than what is going to be tomorrow for a lunch.

Are you really complaining about the fact that we need to deploy firewalls?

I am complaining about the fact that deploying firewall wrong will open your network to everyone. Deploying NAT wrong wont.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#196

Post by general1465 »

kalleboo wrote: post #129
general1465 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because IPv4 is logical and makes sense. First thing which IPv6 came up with? No NATs everything will have a public address. It turned out that this was hare brained idea so let's just cover it up with firewall. However misconfigured firewall means that everything is open... IPv6 has been designed by people who were unable to think further than what is going to be tomorrow for a lunch.

IPv4 came out in 1982 and was designed for every device to have a unique public address. Protocols like FTP were designed to literally pass an IP address to connect directly to. As addresses started running out, the NAT RFC was published in 1994 and described NAT as a "short-term solution". NAT was never meant to be an integral part of IPv4. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1631 NAT broke a ton of things which requi…

So you actually agree with me, that making all addresses public was stupid to begin with. It was stupid on IPv4 and it remain stupid on IPv6, yet we already have experience from IPv4 that it was stupid.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#197

Post by general1465 »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #118
general1465 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because IPv4 is logical and makes sense. First thing which IPv6 came up with? No NATs everything will have a public address. It turned out that this was hare brained idea so let's just cover it up with firewall. However misconfigured firewall means that everything is open... IPv6 has been designed by people who were unable to think further than what is going to be tomorrow for a lunch.

Isn't that the first thing that IPv4 came up with as well? One publicly routable address per device that wants to access the Internet (or the network of universities or military installations or whichever network you were on pre-Internet).

You see and IPv6 was not able to learn from the failure - people does not want to have all computers in one network, same like people does not want to live in one skyscraper.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#198

Post by saghm »

wao0uuno wrote: post #192
voxadam wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dismiss ISPs that don't support IPv6.

I'm not signing up for a new contract with a different company to get the same speeds at higher price and IPv6 that is pretty much useless as many major websites don't even work with it. It will take at least another 15 years before I will consider using IPv6 at home.

Not only that, but not everyone will even have any other choices. The last apartment I was in literally only had one ISP option; I literally would check every six months or so with other ISPs that were in the area because of the fairly frequent outages, and every time they all said that they couldn't offer me service at my address. (This didn't stop them from filling my mailbox with spam all the time though of course). This was in New York (the city), so it's not like there weren't half a dozen other ISPs operating within a few blocks of me.

I can't take seriously the claim that someone would literally refuse to move into an apartment purely on the basis of not having IPv6 support. Bad internet in general? Sure, that's plausible; I work from home, and like I said, the outages were annoying, and if there were no decent speed options my (now) wife and I might have ruled it out? But literally just the lack of IPv6? That's an absurd reason to pick another place to live entirely.

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#199

Post by order-matters »

saghm wrote: post #198
wao0uuno wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not signing up for a new contract with a different company to get the same speeds at higher price and IPv6 that is pretty much useless as many major websites don't even work with it. It will take at least another 15 years before I will consider using IPv6 at home.

Not only that, but not everyone will even have any other choices. The last apartment I was in literally only had one ISP option; I literally would check every six months or so with other ISPs that were in the area because of the fairly frequent outages, and every time they all said that they couldn't offer me service at my address. (This didn't stop them from filling my mailbox with spam all the time though of course…

any idea why no one else could service the building? Ive usually had option of verizon or optimum when ive rented, though my experience has been queens and long island

Re: IPv6 is the only way forward

#200

Post by saghm »

order-matters wrote: post #199
saghm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but not everyone will even have any other choices. The last apartment I was in literally only had one ISP option; I literally would check every six months or so with other ISPs that were in the area because of the fairly frequent outages, and every time they all said that they couldn't offer me service at my address. (This didn't stop them from filling my mailbox with spam all the time though of course…

any idea why no one else could service the building? Ive usually had option of verizon or optimum when ive rented, though my experience has been queens and long island

Optimum was the one option we had. This was in Brooklyn (Park Slope specifically, so pretty high density). My vague understanding is that Verizon wasn't hooked up to the building, but I have no idea why that would be. I only wish they managed to recognize that when sending out advertisements.
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