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Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

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Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#261

Post by tietjens »

eigenspace wrote: post #187
walletdrainer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. It’s certainly rude to ring the bell in a aggressive manner, but many bells are capable of producing much softer, more polite sounds. In super busy old European capitals I find that people increasingly just ride aro…

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

I agree with you, but I can report that in Germany people ring bells constantly and it is simply considered normal. Big cultural difference.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#262

Post by 0x3f »

stavros wrote: post #227
0x3f wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would you suggest cyclists do until that happens? Never go faster than walking speed? Then I can leave my bike at home. Cycle on the road, where cars can hit me, instead of the dedicated bike lane, use of which is often mandatory? I don't know where you live but it's quite unusual here to be cycling through areas that have a lot of pedestrians. If the bike lane is a dedicated one, pedestrians are very rarely i…

Our bike lanes are just a line on the sidewalk and pedestrians routinely walk on them, cross the sidewalk in them without looking, let their toddlers/pets run into them, etc. Also, nobody realizes that a bicycle bell means "someone is coming", so they just ignore it as background noise. I had to mount an airhorn onto my bike. At least people listen to that, though it's so loud I only use it in emergencies.

I would be worried about a horn like this because if they get startled and move into the path of a car on the actual road, or do any other stupid thing that injures them, you're going to have real problems.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#263

Post by Zvez »

noio wrote: post #190
i_am_proteus wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bicycle bells are mostly for warning pedestrians when approaching from behind and passing on shared-use trails. I ride on shared infrastructure and cannot afford to build new infrastructure when my town will not. Not warning a pedestrian when approaching from behind introduces the possibility of collision if the pedestrian makes a sudden change in his walking course. I typically use this etiquette: Passing a single p…

I wonder if you are German? Spending some time in Germany from Holland I notice there is a significant difference in cycling etiquette :) Especially regarding “passing a cyclist” which also touches on the essential difficulty with having only one “ring” sound. Always when Germans pass me on the bike and they ring I get slightly annoyed because I interpret it as a “get out of the way” ring, and I feel like there is en…

as someone who moved to Netherlands couple of years ago, I started to be much more annoyed by cyclist in other countries. In Netherlands if I hear ring I know I'm doing something wrong and I need to stop and pay asses whatever I'm doing right now.

In other countries rings now seem either unnecessary (they have enough space) or rude (I'm not on bike lane, why do you demand me to give you a way).

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#264

Post by jmull »

0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

You're right, it's certainly not the primary way to prevent accidents. But it helps at the edges, which seems worthwhile.

That's assuming the bells aren't abused too badly, which is a mixed bag, but mostly true.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#265

Post by 0x3f »

prmoustache wrote: post #253
0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

> In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient I have seen a small kid jump from his father's scoo…

If I'm driving and I see a young kid like this I always move out away from the curb if possible. So even if they dart out or fall into the road it's not a problem. Actually, same if I'm passing a bunch of parked cars and there is room, since kids can be stupid and emerge from between them.

If someone truly runs into when you're stationary, I'm not sure anyone really has a problem with you in that scenario.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#266

Post by red_admiral »

micv wrote: post #256
mikkupikku wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political cyclists hate this because they think anybody who complains is just a car driver concern trolling, but having been hit by a cyclist I can attest to it being a real problem. Sure I wasn't in real risk of dying, but I was bruised and scraped up for a week after that. I've done my fair share of road cycling in my years, I don't do it now but I still cycle on trails. The way some cyclists push back on any criti…

It's one thing when you're a fit adult male and get hit by an idiot cycling recklessly on the pavement, it's another if you're a small child or frail through sickness or old age. I've seen a couple of very near misses that would have ended very badly for the pedestrian through no fault of their own. Saying this it's mostly teenagers in the idiot role from what I've seen and they are reckless by default.

Although the truly reckless ones are now on their ~50mph tuned illegal scooters with a "yolo" cheap lithium battery.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#267

Post by recursive »

eigenspace wrote: post #187
walletdrainer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. It’s certainly rude to ring the bell in a aggressive manner, but many bells are capable of producing much softer, more polite sounds. In super busy old European capitals I find that people increasingly just ride aro…

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

Pedestrians still exist in non dense zones. It seems there's no way to win. I've been told that I should use a bell because vocal addresses are too startling.

Now if there's not enough room to pass safely and silently I completely slow to the pedestrians speed and THEN calmly say excuse me. But I'm convinced that there is just no universally correct way to do it. If you pass people in any way whatsoever, sooner or later someone is going to get mad about it.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#268

Post by micv »

red_admiral wrote: post #266
micv wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing when you're a fit adult male and get hit by an idiot cycling recklessly on the pavement, it's another if you're a small child or frail through sickness or old age. I've seen a couple of very near misses that would have ended very badly for the pedestrian through no fault of their own. Saying this it's mostly teenagers in the idiot role from what I've seen and they are reckless by default.

Although the truly reckless ones are now on their ~50mph tuned illegal scooters with a "yolo" cheap lithium battery.

Those things are terrifying. Someone's little scooter's wheel base is definitely not stable enough for that sort of speed.

And that's before the battery fires.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#270

Post by mfashby »

eigenspace wrote: post #126
0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

A horn or bell is mostly for telling other people "hey I'm here, stay out of my way and dont suddenly cross into my path" My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they ha…

It's essential on narrow shared paths e.g. a canal towpath, when you're approaching a pedestrian from behind in order to avoid startling them when you pass.

Most people walking the canal towpath around here know this, runners in particular will sometimes be give a wave or visual acknowledgement they've heard you without turning around.

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