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Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

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Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#191

Post by Phemist »

lxgr wrote: post #183
Phemist wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, but now the worldwide geopolitical situation is such that it might at least be feasible?

Yes, but again, what's your problem with additionally taking steps to make things safer? Unless you somehow see technologies such as this distracting from creating a safer environment. But this was developed by Skoda, so I doubt that if they hadn't done this, they would have lobbied for more bike lanes instead.

I dont have issues with taking additional steps to make things safer, I have an issue with this solution serving as a vehicle for the marketing of the inevitability of the problem (of cyclists and pedestrians sharing space) by a car manufacturer obviously interested in this problem continuing to exist.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#192

Post by i_am_proteus »

noio wrote: post #190
i_am_proteus wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bicycle bells are mostly for warning pedestrians when approaching from behind and passing on shared-use trails. I ride on shared infrastructure and cannot afford to build new infrastructure when my town will not. Not warning a pedestrian when approaching from behind introduces the possibility of collision if the pedestrian makes a sudden change in his walking course. I typically use this etiquette: Passing a single p…

I wonder if you are German? Spending some time in Germany from Holland I notice there is a significant difference in cycling etiquette :) Especially regarding “passing a cyclist” which also touches on the essential difficulty with having only one “ring” sound. Always when Germans pass me on the bike and they ring I get slightly annoyed because I interpret it as a “get out of the way” ring, and I feel like there is en…

Living now in Germany :)

I ring a very nice bell and can "mute" the bell (touching it with my hand to stop the ring just after thumbing the striker), so when ringing for information rather than hazard, it's a short quick ring, rather than a long loud ring.

Signs here alert cyclists to warn when passing, so certainly this etiquette is considered normal, but also I imagine it is not universal to all regions.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#193

Post by fixxation92 »

Oras wrote: post #15

Over engineering in real life, solving lack of common sense by introducing a solution where the cyclist is paying. I think the solution is nice for sure, but solving the wrong problem.

I have to agree here. The amount of cyclists I see with full over the ear headphones on-- if these guys are blarning tunes, there is no way they'll every hear the traffic around them. Extremely dangerous.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#195

Post by bdavbdav »

paganel wrote: post #57
bdavbdav wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the roads near my office (central London), which are seldom used by cars, several pedestrians at a time very often walk down the road or diagonally cross the road head in phone. You can get very close and the still don’t notice (the slower you are, the quieter you become so even less likely to hear you). I’m not sure arguing against a bell is helpful - people need to look on any road, especially with the advent of…

Sure is helpful, because it goes like this: pedestrians first -> then cyclists -> then motorists. You may notice that in this worldview (one which I find very hard to argue against) cyclists should give priority to pedestrians, no questions asked. I don't care about fancy bells or whatever, no-one takes those into consideration even when we (us, pedestrians, that is) can hear them because, and I repeat, cyclists are…

I think that’s probably quite a selfish world view (and also quite arrogant to claim your own view is hard to argue against - of course you would find it hard to argue against, that is moot…)

When there is infrastructure to support all 3 kinds of users, it seems a lot more equitable for everyone to use the space cooperatively.

I absolutely agree one should give way to more vulnerable road users, but that all 3 can have better outcomes (safety, speed of journey, efficiency etc) it all use it cooperatively and conscientiously.

To labour the point, on shared cycle and pedestrian paths with a line down the middle, does a bell ring combined with slowing down to a safe speed not seem like an appropriate warning?

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#196

Post by croemer »

Markoff wrote: post #179
croemer wrote: post #163

Fun fact: Škoda means "pity" or "damage" in Czech, can also be used as "what a shame". Happened to be the company founder's surname.

it is quote common family name in Czechia, my daughter's classmate has this family name as well same with most of the Japanese car brands or even Citroen, Peugeot...

But Citroen and Peugeot don't mean something funny like "What a shame"

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#197

Post by iamthemonster »

eigenspace wrote: post #126
0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

A horn or bell is mostly for telling other people "hey I'm here, stay out of my way and dont suddenly cross into my path" My opinion as a cyclist is that I should basically only be using my bell on pedestrians when the pedestrians are wandering onto the bike lane. If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they ha…

My solution to this is that I ring my bell when I'm far from people, usually twice while I'm still a fair way away. It just gets pedestrians conscious that there's a bike around, while also being far enough away that it's not going to surprise them and I don't think they assume it's an aggressive bell.

My least favourite is when a cyclist speeds past and shouts "on ya right" (I'm in Australia) but they shout it when they're so close that there's no chance of hearing and understanding in time.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#198

Post by walletdrainer »

eigenspace wrote: post #187
walletdrainer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If im cycling through a shared space, I find it extremely rude to ring the bell, because it feels like I'm telling people to get out of my way, but they have just as much right to a shared path as I do. It’s certainly rude to ring the bell in a aggressive manner, but many bells are capable of producing much softer, more polite sounds. In super busy old European capitals I find that people increasingly just ride aro…

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

>blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me".

Well, at least here in Europe I’d have to spend a decent amount of time deciding which language to use.

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#199

Post by sandos »

0x3f wrote: post #116

Do horns and bells really prevent accidents? In order for e.g. a horn to work you need enough time that the driver processes the situation and decides the horn will communicate something AND enough time for the pedestrian or whatever to process that and react to it. Generally it's a lot easier just to press the brake, and more importantly be travelling at a speed and in a manner where the brake is sufficient. Structu…

"Do horns and bells really prevent accidents?"

If you are a sane person, absolutely not!! You _try_ the bell, if people react, then you go. Many times it just confuses people or people ignore it.

If you are a high-speed maniac and _rely_ on the bell to clear a path for you... then yeah. But you are then also likely to take great risks in general and will probably be in other accidents...

Re: Škoda DuoBell: A bicycle bell that penetrates noise-cancelling headphones

#200

Post by eigenspace »

walletdrainer wrote: post #198
eigenspace wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think that ringing bells at people is a little rude, regardless of the tone. Like imagine if you were at the grocery store, blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". IMO if I'm in a dense pedestrian zone and I can't go around people and I can't communicate by voice, it means I'm going too fast.

>blocking the isle and someone lightly chimed a bell at you instead of just saying "excuse me". Well, at least here in Europe I’d have to spend a decent amount of time deciding which language to use.

I'm also in Europe, and I always just either say the equivalent in the local language, or just use english. Even in the smallest most remote villages, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know the word "sorry".
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