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German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

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Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#81

Post by mikkupikku »

landl0rd wrote: post #52
embedding-shape wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.

No, if I kidnap someone it's kidnapping. If the police based on probable cause receive and execute a warrant for someone's arrest, it's an arrest. This is how the state monopoly on violence works.

And if the state kills somebody without the cover of a legal pretext, it's called an "extrajudicial killing" rather than a murder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrajudicial_killing#United_S...

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#82

Post by flipped »

oytis wrote: post #63
flipped wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often forget that Threat Actors (TA) are the ones keeping the infosec alive. They are doing a good job of scaring people into implementing actual security protocols and thereby improving everyone's security posture. The whole infosec would collapse without TAs, let's not forget that. They create jobs.

That's right. They also create jobs for police though, and now German police is doing theirs

German govt is also one of the most corrupt and vastly incompetent govt. It's run by bunch of boomers. Most of the prolific ransomware gangs have terrible opsec. De-anon'ing them is child's play. Most of the opsec-aware TAs never even get attributed, let alone get caught for any breaches.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#83

Post by mikkupikku »

BurningFrog wrote: post #60
KPGv2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, admittedly, only been on the Internet for thirty-five years or so, but I seem to recall that a long time ago reading about people "doxxing" guys who posted pictures of them torturing cats and dogs. "Doxxing" certainly doesn't carry a negative connotation in that usage. Unless you live in a culture where torturing domesticated animals is a good thing. ANd I recall that, before that, hackers would doxx other ha…

Doxxing a hostile act. If it's negative depends on if you think they deserve the hostility.

Most people who dox for a reason they think is justified will nonetheless reject the label of doxing for what they did. They'll say "I didn't dox him, I just discovered publicly available but obscure information about him and posted it."

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#84

Post by Aurornis »

mc32 wrote: post #21
KingOfCoders wrote: post #20

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

Unfortunately language tends to get diluted. Nowadays in pop culture it means publishing anyone's personal information, usually against their wishes.

This does seem close to the original intent of "doxxing", where information ("dox") is publicized that connects a real-world identity to a previously anonymous online persona. These are hackers in the classic sense who were going out of their way to stay anonymous.

The dilution of the word doxxing has been interesting, though. Some of the recent "doxxing" controversies have been about figures who weren't all that anonymous to begin with. The pop culture meaning has been extended to cover any mention of someone's real identity at all, even if it wasn't a secret.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#85

Post by hobofan »

jojomodding wrote: post #53

So apparently some CCC-connected hackers already unmasked one of them years ago (as reported in the update, which could have also just linked to the talk here: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12134-hirne_hacken_hackback_edit... ) Makes you wonder if the investigators discovered this independently, or decided to maybe ask the hackers already involved in defending against them for help...

I'm not deep into the topic, but AFAIK there generally isn't a warm connection between the CCC and the BND in Germany (in the recent years mostly due to the BNDs involvement ins spying on German citizens, but I think there is also deeper history there). If a hacker collaborates with the BND they do run a risk of many of their peers not wanting to collaborate with them anymore.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#86

Post by ddtaylor »

I think people are getting stuck on the concept of the word doxing here. In anonymous online hacking circles, the idea that you're exposing anyone's OPSEC at all is considered basically doxing. People do it regularly, but it's seen as a clear indication of being an enemy.

Some take a "full disclosure" style and expose all OPSEC failures instantly and transparently, because otherwise people seem to collect OPSEC failures and make it seem to be extortion itself, like saying "hey remember that time you signed off with your real name?" or "I know your clearnet address"

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#87

Post by Yokohiii »

flipped wrote: post #80
seanhunter wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the “Broken Window” fallacy[1] which was explained by Bastiat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

[flagged]

If economic growth at all cost is the solution, then you are wasting your time giving your fiction away for free.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#88

Post by mulmen »

ptero wrote: post #72
KPGv2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, admittedly, only been on the Internet for thirty-five years or so, but I seem to recall that a long time ago reading about people "doxxing" guys who posted pictures of them torturing cats and dogs. "Doxxing" certainly doesn't carry a negative connotation in that usage. Unless you live in a culture where torturing domesticated animals is a good thing. ANd I recall that, before that, hackers would doxx other ha…

> that seems like the exact same usage as here: tying a pseudonym to an IRL for purposes of law enforcement. I disagree. Tying a pseudonym to an IRL persona for purposes of law enforcement is a part of an official investigation. Doxxing is specifically non-government unmasking and dissemination of that tie for extrajudicial purposes, almost always for harassment. There is a world of difference between them and we sho…

What if the government reveals the name of a victim of sexual assault? Is that doxxing? What about a political rival in connection with a made up crime? What about a true but benign crime such as accessing reproductive healthcare?

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#89

Post by twodave »

Some of the comments here (and lately on HN in general) are very concerning to me. Are we really going to pretend that people accused of real crimes shouldn’t be arrested, charged and, if found guilty, have an appropriate sentence? It doesn’t take many more than 2 brain cells rubbing together to see that that won’t end well. Whataboutism, political differences, and even real injustices in my opinion do not make this a reasonable position.
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