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German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#51

Post by Yokohiii »

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #30
Yokohiii wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, criminals also have a right to privacy. However, the limited publication of personal data of criminals by law enforcement is generally a legally legitimate measure. Doxxing, on the other hand, is generally a process that violates the fundamental right to privacy.

>criminals >law >legally You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. But it was perhaps the least worse action available all things considered. Can't just whisk people off the street in a foreign country or drone them over such matters, those options would…

> You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally.

It's not, in Germany we have separation of powers.

> The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard.

Morals aren't binary. Morals have context.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#52

Post by landl0rd »

embedding-shape wrote: post #32
moomin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I’m not okay with this. Doxxing is a term with an extremely negative connotation and is often done to people who, bluntly, weren’t hiding or doing anything wrong. The correct term for the same act here is either “accuse” or “unmask”.

If someone wasn't previously known, only an alias or alter-ego, but you then link those together with a real-life identity, that's very much the definition of "doxxing", at least the original definition, maybe it's different today? Positive or negative doesn't really matter, just like "shooting" or "jumping" in itself isn't positive or negative, it's just a verb.

No, if I kidnap someone it's kidnapping. If the police based on probable cause receive and execute a warrant for someone's arrest, it's an arrest. This is how the state monopoly on violence works.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#53

Post by jojomodding »

So apparently some CCC-connected hackers already unmasked one of them years ago (as reported in the update, which could have also just linked to the talk here: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12134-hirne_hacken_hackback_edit... )

Makes you wonder if the investigators discovered this independently, or decided to maybe ask the hackers already involved in defending against them for help...

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#54

Post by mschild »

embedding-shape wrote: post #44
usrusr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the police actually catches the accused and puts them in jail, is that kidnapping? Most verbs have far more semantics than just the most basic before/after state diff.

Well, no, kidnapping is unlawful abduction. But abduction is always abduction, regardless of who does it, police can abduct people too, but when criminals do so, we call it kidnapping, since it's illegal. Not sure what point you were trying to make, but I think it failed to land properly.

"Doxing" has negative connotations.

Its almost always associated with a private person (ie not police or anyone of a judicial system) releasing personal information with malicious intent.

As the person above you said, semantics are important. This is a judicial system specifically searching for a person they believe to have caused severe criminal harm.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#55

Post by stuckkeys »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #20

Putting someone on a (most) wanted list is "doxing"? [Edit] "An international search is underway for Daniil Maksimovich SHCHUKIN on suspicion of numerous counts of gang-related and commercial extortion using ransomware to the detriment of commercial enterprises, public facilities, and institutions."

I do not understand this logic either. They take GDPR way too serious haha. JK obv.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#56

Post by ecshafer »

kgeist wrote: post #6
alexmocki wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Found his record in Russia's official company registry. This is what he officially does as an entepreneur: 56.10 — Restaurant activities and food delivery services 47.23 — Retail sale of fish, crustaceans, and mollusks in specialized stores 47.25.12 — Retail sale of beer in specialized stores 47.25.2 — Retail sale of soft drinks in specialized stores 47.29.39 — Retail sale of other food products in specialized stores…

I find it entertaining that even as part of a Russian hacking gang, the real threat is the Russian tax authorities. Regardless of how you got the money, need to pay the taxes.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#57

Post by Sharlin »

KPGv2 wrote: post #49
nailer wrote: post #8

Feels odd for an infosec blog to use 'doxxing' this way. Doxxing is generally considered to be unethical exposure of personal information. Identifying a criminal is ethical.

"Doxxing" is from the 90s and was used to describe a hacker unmasking another hacker so they could be arrested. That's almost exactly the same usage as here.

Semantic shift happens over time. A 2026 article is supposed to communicate to 2026, not 1996, readers.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#58

Post by wat10000 »

zaphar wrote: post #37
wat10000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. I'm free to make my own determination on the matter.

You are certainly free to make up your own definitions for words and speak a dialect that is niche but you will not be effectively communicating when you do. By commonly understood definition criminality is a matter of law.

Well, the dude here hasn't been put on trial, let alone convicted, as far as I can tell from the article. So he's not officially considered a criminal by a government. Yet we all seem comfortable calling him one, so I'd say that it is not, in fact, commonly understood to be exclusively a matter of law.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#59

Post by flipped »

oytis wrote: post #46
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>criminals >law >legally You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. But it was perhaps the least worse action available all things considered. Can't just whisk people off the street in a foreign country or drone them over such matters, those options would…

Running a ransomware gang is immoral. Catching someone running a ransomware gang is good. If publishing their name helps catch them, it's also good. Not sure where do you see the gap between legality and morality in this case

People often forget that Threat Actors (TA) are the ones keeping the infosec alive. They are doing a good job of scaring people into implementing actual security protocols and thereby improving everyone's security posture. The whole infosec would collapse without TAs, let's not forget that. They create jobs.

Re: German police name alleged leaders of GandCrab and REvil ransomware groups

#60

Post by BurningFrog »

KPGv2 wrote: post #48
usrusr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the police actually catches the accused and puts them in jail, is that kidnapping? Most verbs have far more semantics than just the most basic before/after state diff.

I have, admittedly, only been on the Internet for thirty-five years or so, but I seem to recall that a long time ago reading about people "doxxing" guys who posted pictures of them torturing cats and dogs. "Doxxing" certainly doesn't carry a negative connotation in that usage. Unless you live in a culture where torturing domesticated animals is a good thing. ANd I recall that, before that, hackers would doxx other ha…

Doxxing a hostile act.

If it's negative depends on if you think they deserve the hostility.

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