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Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

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201–210 of 604 posts

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#201
I remember I was trying to learn GUI programming in late 2000s. I took an attempt at MFC but no matter how hard I tried, it just didn't make any sense. Then I found out about Qt 4 and it felt like magic immediately. I ended up working as a professional Qt software developer for 3 years.

Fast forward to now, and KDE Plasma is state of the art Linux desktop that I've been daily driving for years. It's also built on Qt.

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#202
Every year the same debate, every year the same Microslop apologists in the comments, every year nothing ever changes, every year Microslop's market cap keeps groing, every year the same problems

Microslop should have been dismantled decades ago, it's now too late, we need a paradigm shift so that Microsoft no longer affects our society

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#203
post #63

The churn would have been much worse if Microsoft was rolling out successful GUI framework after GUI framework. As it is you can still write a Win32 app if that pleases you, or still write .NET (and damn that runtime download!) Microsoft has bought into ‘make a web app’ since 1988, they introduced AJAX, they got flexbox and grid into CSS and numerous HTML 5 features to support application UIs. They ‘frikin bought npm…

Your post is touching on a key question: why write a Windows-specific app? I'm a developer who has built and published several apps. I want the biggest possible audience for those apps. Why would I limit those apps to Windows? (Or even to any single platform/OS?) Web apps work everywhere. The web has grown increasingly powerful and capable. Why would I invest in a technology that can only run on a single OS? Doesn't…

>Your post is touching on a key question: why write a Windows-specific app?

Why write an anything-specific app?

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#204

I was recently exploring "an OS from scratch" architecture with ChatGPT. Apart from the central idea that I wanted it to be a capability OS, I also started thinking about how I'd make GUI apps and what layers would naturally make sense. The cleanest design I came up with works like this: 1. At Layer_1 OS provides panes or windows to which apps can render whatever graphics using OS gpu lib (think Raylib, but maybe a b…

L1: Wayland, L2: QML / Slint / XAML etc, L3: Yes, these allow custom widgets

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#205

The deeper problem is that Microsoft keeps trying to solve GUI consistency at the framework layer instead of the design system layer. WinForms, WPF, UWP, WinUI -- each one a new framework, each one eventually abandoned. Apple solved this by treating the design system as the product and letting the framework be invisible. Microsoft has it backwards every time.

You can't just take 40 years of Win32 apps and add the Metro design language, touchscreen compatibility, or dark mode system-wide. WPF nowadays has a skin that imitates WinUI, so at least Microsoft is trying.

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#206
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end state of genAI is that the end user is the enterprise

The end state of genAI could as well be a few billionaires being their enterprise and everybody else being unemployed or working at the factory. Robots are not there yet (far from it) and someone needs to build and maintain the thing as well as food for everyone. High unemployment could drive salaries down and make lots of thing unavailable to the common people while making humans cheaper than automation for boring m…

The French will lead the way.

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#207
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post is touching on a key question: why write a Windows-specific app? I'm a developer who has built and published several apps. I want the biggest possible audience for those apps. Why would I limit those apps to Windows? (Or even to any single platform/OS?) Web apps work everywhere. The web has grown increasingly powerful and capable. Why would I invest in a technology that can only run on a single OS? Doesn't…

> Web apps work everywhere. The web has grown increasingly powerful and capable. Why would I invest in a technology that can only run on a single OS? There are other options besides "web app" and "only one OS". A cross platform app which uses something like GTK or QT will be a massively better experience for your users, one a web app cannot hope to equal.

[dead]

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#208

The deeper problem is that Microsoft keeps trying to solve GUI consistency at the framework layer instead of the design system layer. WinForms, WPF, UWP, WinUI -- each one a new framework, each one eventually abandoned. Apple solved this by treating the design system as the product and letting the framework be invisible. Microsoft has it backwards every time.

I agree. Except that WinForms has not been abandoned. In fact, it's one of the supported paths in the modern .NET stack.

It lacks hardware acceleration.

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#209
post #199
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a 70's child, in computing since the mid 80s you made me almost spill my Monday coffee. What a laugh, do you want the examples on Apple's side?

The evergreen question of "how do you go back and/or close an app on IOS?"

It's still easier than Windows CE though.

Re: Microsoft hasn't had a coherent GUI strategy since Petzold

#210

The deeper problem is that Microsoft keeps trying to solve GUI consistency at the framework layer instead of the design system layer. WinForms, WPF, UWP, WinUI -- each one a new framework, each one eventually abandoned. Apple solved this by treating the design system as the product and letting the framework be invisible. Microsoft has it backwards every time.

> Apple solved this This comment written before Tahoe

Snide and subjective comments aside, you’ve clearly missed their point.

Even if you take away subjective opinions on Liquid Glass, the point is that the core system updates things across the board.

Unless apps have implemented custom drawing, you get a consistent-ish UI (for better or worse) across the system, whereas with windows you are beholden to whatever hodge podge of UI frameworks were chosen at the given time.

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