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Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

nytimes.com

91–100 of 113 posts

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are big barriers to entry What are the barriers? Can I make non-dischargeable student loans at 5%?

> What are the barriers? Lots of startup capital?

The inability to issue fiat currency based on a fraction of my actual holdings?

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#92

Paying your debts is a business decision, not a moral decision. There is nothing moral about paying your debt to a bank and nothing immoral about not paying your debt to a bank. Businesses do this ALL THE TIME. Businesses can do this, and will walk away from debt the second when the math makes sense. If it's okay for businesses, then the exact same behavior should be okay for us humans to do. I walked away from my ho…

In my opinion, if you agree to a deal and then decide not to fulfill your end of the deal, that is immoral. Like if you agree to pay me to make you a sandwich and then you take the sandwich but leave without paying, that is immoral.

“To steal from a brother or sister is evil. To not steal from the institutions that are the pillars of the Pig Empire is equally immoral.”

― Abbie Hoffman

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#93
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch embassy will be happy to get you home, where you can find a job.

Right, for tiny fee of 6000 euro return ticket, and 2000 euro monthly rent. Great plan to save money and pay debt!

There's only so much handholding a government is going to do. Don't let your passport expire while abroad and ineligible for renewal.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#94
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch embassy will be happy to get you home, where you can find a job.

Right, for tiny fee of 6000 euro return ticket, and 2000 euro monthly rent. Great plan to save money and pay debt!

Speaking of plans... If you haven't made bank already when the passport expires, perhaps it wasn't such a good idea to move abroad after all.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#95
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are big barriers to entry What are the barriers? Can I make non-dischargeable student loans at 5%?

Finding investors willing to take less than 5% return (after paying for overhead and uncollectable loans being written off due to death/injury/ability to pay/etc) would probably be the primary one. You would likely be offering more or less the same or worse rate as I could get on a 10 or 30 year federal bond with more risk associated with it. I know I’d be completely uninterested in such an investment pitch. It would…

> Finding investors willing to take less than 5% return

If it’s safe I can leverage it.

> get on a 10 or 30 year federal bond with more risk associated with it

5% is 10 bps over the 20 year. Not a lot. But I picked a round number. Point is why couldn’t it be undercut? If it can’t, easily, it’s correctly priced.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#96
At this point I'm of the opinion that taking out burdensome loans for all but a handful of high earning degrees is a negative signal of intelligence, regardless of how you did in the classes. The concept of a loan, interest rates, and expected ROI is not beyond the grasp of an eighteen year old adult.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#97
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, my monthly student loan payments in the US for a degree in healthcare is $1300 USD per month. It comes out to about 40% of each paycheck. That’s a significant amount. I’d honestly consider moving abroad to avoid paying it. It’s debilitating and I can barely survive while making payments.

Wow. For The Netherlands it is 4% of your income, but only the part of your income above minimum wage. If you earn €40k, minimum wage is €26k then you pay 4% over €13k = €520 per year = €43 per month. The average medical student is around €50,000 to €60,000 in debt.

€50,000 / €43 / 12 is more than 96 years. Is anyone expected to pay their loans off, or in other words how much debt is forgiven each year?

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that is pretty serious violation of human rights I don’t think it’s that hyperbolic. But I agree that the existence of debts shouldn’t invalidate one’s right to a passport. (The counter argument is that passports are a privilege and citizenship a bundle of privileges and duties. Why should the country have the burden of passporting someone abroad who as abandoned it.)

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma... "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." Passports shouldn't be a privilege, and violation of the universal declaration of human rights is pretty serious.

> violation of the universal declaration of human rights is pretty serious

No, it isn’t. It isn’t even legally binding. (And obviously couldn’t be. It would invalidate incarceration and conscription, for example.)

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that is pretty serious violation of human rights I don’t think it’s that hyperbolic. But I agree that the existence of debts shouldn’t invalidate one’s right to a passport. (The counter argument is that passports are a privilege and citizenship a bundle of privileges and duties. Why should the country have the burden of passporting someone abroad who as abandoned it.)

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma... "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." Passports shouldn't be a privilege, and violation of the universal declaration of human rights is pretty serious.

People don't have that right when they are criminals, prisoners don't get to leave their country etc and this is essentially that.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, if you agree to a deal and then decide not to fulfill your end of the deal, that is immoral. Like if you agree to pay me to make you a sandwich and then you take the sandwich but leave without paying, that is immoral.

In my opinion, if you make a $50,000+ bet on an 18 year old's future career, whether or not that bet works out for you is entirely your problem. Investments don't always work out, tough luck. That's obviously not the same as buying a sandwich.

Its not immoral to not be able to pay your debts, but its immoral to not pay them when you are able to.
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