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Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

nytimes.com

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Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#41

Post by reenorap »

Paying your debts is a business decision, not a moral decision. There is nothing moral about paying your debt to a bank and nothing immoral about not paying your debt to a bank.

Businesses do this ALL THE TIME. Businesses can do this, and will walk away from debt the second when the math makes sense. If it's okay for businesses, then the exact same behavior should be okay for us humans to do. I walked away from my house at the height of the financial crisis. It was a business decision, because the mortgage was far larger than the value of my house.

Student loans are the only reason why tuition has gone up 10x in 30 years. Every financial entity from banks to schools feel like it's okay to hang students out to dry with large debts because they will have to pay for it for the rest of their lives. I hope a large portion of the debt disappears because the students simply walk away from the US.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#42

Post by gunapologist99 »

nickpinkston wrote: post #12
tracerbulletx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people seem to have been successfully brainwashed into moralizing debt but only for 19 year old serfs who have been lied to about the value of the asset they're taking out debt for. If its a corporation transferring 20 billion of debt into a leveraged buy out so they can shut down the company after squeezing all the assets out of it, that's just doing business.

Exactly! I like the analogy of: When the bank is giving you a sub-prime loan, who is more sophisticated in that transaction? If the bank (with their fancy risk models, etc.), why shouldn't they be the party to take the bulk of that risk?

In the United States at least, a bank who is offering a subprime loan is taking the bulk of that risk.

Student loans are guaranteed by the federal government. That is not the same thing at all.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwuttfj wrote: post #34
retired wrote: post #15

People in The Netherlands have done this. They go to S/E Asian countries to skip out on a €30,000 debt. After a while your passport becomes invalid which makes travel very difficult. And with the outstanding debt you are not able to get a new passport. Which is dumb, because you only have to pay off the debt if you are able to, interest rate is very low, you can pause it for a few years and after 35 years the loan is…

> Passport Blocks: Arrears exceeding €5,000 can result in registration in the passport alert system, making it impossible to receive a new passport, I would say that is pretty serious violation of human rights, for relatively small infraction. Soviet countries used similar system to prevent people from leaving their communist paradise. How are you supposed to pay your debt, if you are not allowed to find new job abro…

> that is pretty serious violation of human rights

I don’t think it’s that hyperbolic. But I agree that the existence of debts shouldn’t invalidate one’s right to a passport.

(The counter argument is that passports are a privilege and citizenship a bundle of privileges and duties. Why should the country have the burden of passporting someone abroad who as abandoned it.)

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#46

Post by Ancalagon »

declan_roberts wrote: post #25

The most frustrating part of the student loan question is that you can still GET THESE LOANS! The schools will sell you into indentured servitude today! They'll take the money and don't care at all! They take ZERO responsibility for the student loan crisis.

Crisis? This is the intended outcome. Look around - companies and the media are upset when people exercise their ability to change jobs, drop out of the workforce, or move abroad.

The system is working exactly as intended. Debt and healthcare are just ways we are bound to it.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#48

Post by retired »

throwuttfj wrote: post #34
retired wrote: post #15

People in The Netherlands have done this. They go to S/E Asian countries to skip out on a €30,000 debt. After a while your passport becomes invalid which makes travel very difficult. And with the outstanding debt you are not able to get a new passport. Which is dumb, because you only have to pay off the debt if you are able to, interest rate is very low, you can pause it for a few years and after 35 years the loan is…

> Passport Blocks: Arrears exceeding €5,000 can result in registration in the passport alert system, making it impossible to receive a new passport, I would say that is pretty serious violation of human rights, for relatively small infraction. Soviet countries used similar system to prevent people from leaving their communist paradise. How are you supposed to pay your debt, if you are not allowed to find new job abro…

They only do this if communication with the debtor is impossible. If this happens to you, you can contact the government, schedule a payment plan for your debt and then they give you a passport with a 12 to 24 month validity.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#49

Post by JumpCrisscross »

retired wrote: post #48
throwuttfj wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Passport Blocks: Arrears exceeding €5,000 can result in registration in the passport alert system, making it impossible to receive a new passport, I would say that is pretty serious violation of human rights, for relatively small infraction. Soviet countries used similar system to prevent people from leaving their communist paradise. How are you supposed to pay your debt, if you are not allowed to find new job abro…

They only do this if communication with the debtor is impossible. If this happens to you, you can contact the government, schedule a payment plan for your debt and then they give you a passport with a 12 to 24 month validity.

> They block your passport because they can't reach you

Wouldn’t one applying for a passport involve the government and person connecting on some level?

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ceejayoz wrote: post #39
standardUser wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, student loan interest rates tend to be close to market (which I find despicable) and there is no automatic forgiveness. In fact, student loan debt has extra rules in the US making it difficult to get discharged in bankruptcy, so even that route doesn't work for a lot of people.

Yeah, I find this deeply frustrating. Interest rates are supposed to reflect the level of risk, and student loans are deeply low-risk to the lender.

> student loans are deeply low-risk to the lender

Based on the other comment, they absolutely reflect that.

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