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Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

nytimes.com

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Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#21

Post by petcat »

plagiarist wrote: post #19
petcat wrote: post #5

She's from Colorado and decided to go to an out of state university (Oregon) and pay full out of state tuition for a degree in "historic preservation"? Yeah no shit you just signed up for a lifetime of debt. Reminds me of another story of some lady that got saddled with a couple hundred thousand in debt because she really wanted to go to Duke for a theater management degree. And then fled with her Russian fiance to M…

Perhaps we should encourage people to learn things other than what best services ad tech billionaires.

They can stay in their own state and do that for 1/4th the cost and then maybe they won't have to run away

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#22

Post by dyauspitr »

samesamediffer wrote: post #8
dyauspitr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s intentional to foster the growth of entrepreneurship. It’s the ability to do something without being personally liable. It’s a good thing.

How does your argument fail to also apply to student loans?

When companies declare bankruptcy they have to liquidate their assets and pay back as much as they can. How is it different from student loans?

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#23

Post by propter_hoc »

dvt wrote: post #10
propter_hoc wrote: post #4

I'm Canadian, but I know someone from the US who did this. She's living in Paris, moderately successful in academia and as far as I can tell, completely happy to never return to the US. Her family goes to visit her in Europe once in a while. Perplexing.

> moderately successful in academia and as far as I can tell Why not pay your debts then? I totally understand debt forgiveness for extenuating circumstances (and imo, it's a crime that student loan debt can't be forgiven, and the interest rates are often predatory—especially in the case of med school and law school), but this just sounds like stealing with extra steps.

Yeah. I don't know the extent of her debt or current income, but she went to an in-state school for a STEM degree, she's not someone who got a useless degree from an overly expensive school. She definitely doesn't seem to regret her decision, whatever the financial or moral considerations.

As I said, I'm a bit perplexed.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#24

Post by standardUser »

retired wrote: post #15

People in The Netherlands have done this. They go to S/E Asian countries to skip out on a €30,000 debt. After a while your passport becomes invalid which makes travel very difficult. And with the outstanding debt you are not able to get a new passport. Which is dumb, because you only have to pay off the debt if you are able to, interest rate is very low, you can pause it for a few years and after 35 years the loan is…

In the US, student loan interest rates tend to be close to market (which I find despicable) and there is no automatic forgiveness. In fact, student loan debt has extra rules in the US making it difficult to get discharged in bankruptcy, so even that route doesn't work for a lot of people.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#25

Post by declan_roberts »

The most frustrating part of the student loan question is that you can still GET THESE LOANS! The schools will sell you into indentured servitude today! They'll take the money and don't care at all! They take ZERO responsibility for the student loan crisis.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#26

Post by tpmoney »

nickpinkston wrote: post #11
hdgvhicv wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies do this all the time, then declare bankruptcy and move on.

Totally agree - there's a lot of double standards here: Bankruptcy is good for entrepreneurial risk, but not for human thriving apparently...

Bankruptcy is great for human thriving, and the extensive US bankruptcy system is one of the best tools our legal system has for people who wind up in bad situations. It's a complete shame that we decided that student loan debt was ineligible for most forms of bankruptcy once it became clear that federal guaranteeing of loans would generate a lot of high risk loans.

But fleeing to another country and/or simply refusing to pay your debts, regardless of whether or not you are able to are is not bankruptcy. It's simply refusing to pay your debts.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#27

Post by kadoban »

dyauspitr wrote: post #22
samesamediffer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your argument fail to also apply to student loans?

When companies declare bankruptcy they have to liquidate their assets and pay back as much as they can. How is it different from student loans?

The difference is you _can't_ do that for student loans. There is no option to get rid of them via bankruptcy.

So, this happens instead.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#28

Post by Analemma_ »

samesamediffer wrote: post #8
dyauspitr wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s intentional to foster the growth of entrepreneurship. It’s the ability to do something without being personally liable. It’s a good thing.

How does your argument fail to also apply to student loans?

People can decide on what terms they want to loan money to, or invest in, a business, based on how likely they think it is to succeed. And if they guess wrong, tough luck, they should've been smarter. The incentive structure here is to make it easier to raise money with good ideas and harder to raise money with stupid ones.

This incentive structure doesn't exist with student loans: student loans are unconditional, and with terms that don't take into account likelihood of payback.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#29

Post by declan_roberts »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #3
jazz9k wrote: post #2

Who wouldn't want to rack up a bunch of debt and just not pay when the bill came due?

Companies do this all the time, then declare bankruptcy and move on.

Student loans should also get discharged in bankruptcy and the schools who are benefiting from predatory lending should take the bath.

Re: Student Debt Burdened Them, So They Moved Abroad and Stopped Paying

#30

Post by docdeek »

> Ms. Tully was on an income-based repayment plan, which allows many borrowers to have their remaining debt forgiven after 20 years of making qualifying payments. She was paying $60 per month when she defaulted. This amount, to many, may seem manageable. But for her, it remained psychologically burdensome.

$60 a month for 20 years, and then the debt is forgiven doesn’t sound burdensome at all. Perhaps if she doesn’t return to the US it won’t matter, but it seems a small price to pay monthly to make returning to your home one day a whole lot less stressful.

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