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F-15E jet shot down over Iran

theguardian.com

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Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#681

Post by worik »

Merad wrote: post #664
pwarner wrote: post #59

I hope the aviators are OK, and also hope whoever they were bombing are also OK. I do wonder if Iran finds them first, will they treat them better than the US treated survivors of the ship sunk by a US torpedo in the Indiana Ocean?

If you're suggesting that the US submarine should have rescued the survivors - with respect I think you don't understand how submarines work. They have no capability to perform rescue operations. They have no way to handle mass numbers of injuries, there's normally just one corpsman (basically a medic) on board. Even if they want to do a rescue operation they have no place to put them. Subs barely have room for their…

They should not have sunk the ship in the first place.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#682

Post by postsantum »

tokai wrote: post #27
MarkMarine wrote: post #21

Military aviators train for this, being alone behind enemy lines (look up SERE school if you’re curious, one of the craziest training courses outside of special forces) and there is a special force just for aviator recovery behind enemy lines, US AirForce Pararescue. Hopefully they’ll get the aviators back quickly, the last thing our country needs is American hostages making this ridiculous war harder to stop.

Prisoner of war, not hostage. edit: I'm baffled by the amount of downvotes pointing out the objectively correct terminology can get. Its not a matter of opinion, military personnel captured by the enemy are pow no matter their treatment. A hostage, by definition, has been abducted.

> He was kidnapped from his warplane

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#683

Post by asdff »

miketery wrote: post #618
shevy-java wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be any casus belli?

Do you think threats and missiles from an adversary are insufficient cause for war?

Yes. They didn't attack the US. We attacked them with no casus belli. Operation Epstein Fuckup.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#684

Post by andrewflnr »

swyx wrote: post #392
KaiserPro wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I missed something, Only Hegseth was promising no quarter (ie war crimes)

he what? this is on the record?

For what it's worth, he probably didn't know what he was saying.

(slop has been around longer than LLMs)

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#685

Post by andrewflnr »

tokai wrote: post #27
MarkMarine wrote: post #21

Military aviators train for this, being alone behind enemy lines (look up SERE school if you’re curious, one of the craziest training courses outside of special forces) and there is a special force just for aviator recovery behind enemy lines, US AirForce Pararescue. Hopefully they’ll get the aviators back quickly, the last thing our country needs is American hostages making this ridiculous war harder to stop.

Prisoner of war, not hostage. edit: I'm baffled by the amount of downvotes pointing out the objectively correct terminology can get. Its not a matter of opinion, military personnel captured by the enemy are pow no matter their treatment. A hostage, by definition, has been abducted.

I don't know what definition of "hostage" you're using, but practically speaking, a hostage is what you make of them.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#686

Post by asdff »

ineedaj0b wrote: post #577
praptak wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn't even a defined victory condition. It's even worse if you consider what rational options the mullahs have. Yes, they are a murderous dictatorship and enemies of US - no question about that. But they did nothing to provoke this particular attack and they still got bombed. Backing off without first inflicting severe pain is just not an option in this situation. It would be an invitation to get bombed at wi…

they were making a nuke, plenty of details there - and no one wants another NK situation in the world. Btw, Iran with conventional missiles struck its Arab neighbors. After Trump leaves office the next President will still hate Iran irregardless of political party.

North Korea, famous for attacking with nukes. Once again the only nation that has ever used nukes on another nation is the United States. If anything it is the United States that should be disarmed because there is already precedent that they will use them. Everyone else developed the bomb because of the United States having it and having a monopoly on destroying any city with a single bomb.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#687

Post by [deleted] »

mahirsaid wrote: post #668
UncleOxidant wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Death to America" doesn't give us the right to bomb them. They've been saying that for a long time now and yet haven't posed serious threat to the US mainland. Trump says a lot of crazy shit as well, would that give other countries the right to bomb the US?

I wonder why they're saying that?.

[deleted]

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#688

Post by rchaud »

MarkMarine wrote: post #21

Military aviators train for this, being alone behind enemy lines (look up SERE school if you’re curious, one of the craziest training courses outside of special forces) and there is a special force just for aviator recovery behind enemy lines, US AirForce Pararescue. Hopefully they’ll get the aviators back quickly, the last thing our country needs is American hostages making this ridiculous war harder to stop.

> American hostages

Military personnel captured as prisoners of war are not hostages. Unlike embassy personnel held hostage during the 1979 revolution, it's unclear if military POWs have any value to leverage against the US, considering how its leader feels about about "people who get captured" and "they knew what they signed up for". We're only hearing about this so the administration can get ahead of the narrative instead of Iran. Otherwise, it's doing everything it can to hide information about the cost of war in terms of monetary cost and casualties.

The hostages here are the so-called "allies" in the Arab world who received no notice of the invasion and were sitting ducks for wide-scale regional retaliation from Iran due to them hosting US bases.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#689

Post by asdff »

mhb wrote: post #610
UncleOxidant wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "Death to America" doesn't give us the right to bomb them. They've been saying that for a long time now and yet haven't posed serious threat to the US mainland. Trump says a lot of crazy shit as well, would that give other countries the right to bomb the US?

Don't be intentionally obtuse. They've been saying this for over four decades and have spent at least tens of billions of dollars in their quest to make it happen. Besides attacking Israel.

If they were serious they could have you know actually done something to the US all this time. Like closing this straight. Or at the very least extorting it.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#690

Post by C6JEsQeQa5fCjE »

ksd482 wrote: post #512
potatototoo99 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I'm serious, why would my age affect how I feel about a soldier dying invading another country? But you are right that probably in the big context of things a POW is better for negotiating an ealier cease fire, which would ultimately be the better outcome.

[flagged]

> You think enemy soldiers are all evil?

If they are invading your country when you haven't invaded theirs, absolutely. An illegal war of aggression makes all the participants on the attacking side morally bad, yes.

Those pilots are dealing death and destruction to people and the infrastructure of the attacked country on a daily basis, which they sneak-attacked in the middle of what the victim country thought were diplomatic negotiations, for the second time. Do those pilots not deserve a lot of bad things happening to them in return?

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