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Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

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Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#301

Post by vertr »

grannyg00se wrote: post #288
vertr wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition of racism is incorrect. "Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior." Wikipedia.

What I said racism is: "using race as a classification upon which you base your actions" What your quote says: "...practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into groups called races." I don't see how my definition is all that far off.

"and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."

That's the important part. "Using race as a classification upon which you base your actions" is not by definition racism. Just as using sex as a classification upon which to base actions is not sexism. There is a requirement that those classifications must be used to discriminate or suggest that another group is superior in order for it to be racism or sexism.

Thus your definition is wrong because you selectively ignored a key part of the actual definition.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#302

Post by rmc »

ta12121 wrote: post #253
rmc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they should use a much better predictor of disadvantage than skin color What would you suggest? All methods of trying to measure "disadvantage-ness" will be flawed (including race/ethnicity ones). I mentioned this in this comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4758649

Yes, they will all be flawed, but not all of them will be as flawed as skin color. Just because something is hard, doesn't mean it's OK to do something easy and bad.

What makes you think skin colour is the worst possible method? Surely flipping a coin is much worse? Or requiring that applications are written in joined-up-writing/cursive?

There are plenty of worse methods.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#303

Post by rmc »

jpiasetz wrote: post #273
danilocampos wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just had a black man elected to his second term as president, so I think that's a pretty good sign we aren't that racist. Sir, I say this with as much respect as I can muster: Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someone who is a member of the racial majority to declare the extent or impact of racism. You simply have no idea what you're talking about. A mixed race man was, indeed, elected…

> Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someone who is a member of the racial majority to declare the extent or impact of racism. You simply have no idea what you're talking about. The opposite is also true: "Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someone who is a member of the racial minority to declare the extent or impact of racism." Why not say simply it is not the place…

The opposite is also true: "Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someone who is a member of the racial minority to declare the extent or impact of racism."

People of marginalized groups are often much more familiar with racism and what is and isn't racist than people of privileged groups. It's like talking about sports with a sports fanatic and someone not that into sports. One person is going to know a lot more than the other.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#304

Post by ta12121 »

rmc wrote: post #302
ta12121 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they will all be flawed, but not all of them will be as flawed as skin color. Just because something is hard, doesn't mean it's OK to do something easy and bad.

What makes you think skin colour is the worst possible method? Surely flipping a coin is much worse? Or requiring that applications are written in joined-up-writing/cursive? There are plenty of worse methods.

I never said it was the worst. I just said there are others that are better. Please.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#305

Post by saalweachter »

nvarsj wrote: post #168
clarky07 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we have a system that systematically disadvantages non black people. Just stop discriminating. Either way. No reason to have one or the other have an advantage. We just had a black man elected to his second term as president, so I think that's a pretty good sign we aren't that racist. This wouldn't have happened a few decades ago.

> Instead we have a system that systematically disadvantages non black people. This is patently false. If you're white, you're at a huge advantage from birth. It's trivial to find data supporting this.

90% of American CEOs are taller than the average American; 30% of CEOs are 6'2" or taller, compared to 4% of the American population. CEOs are taller on average than actors, a job where appearance should matter.

Humans are shallow creatures.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#306

Post by cdmckay »

jebblue wrote: post #287
danilocampos wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I believe you are assuming the race of the parent. For all you know they could be a member of a racial minority. You believe incorrectly. I did my homework. http://geekpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/derekclar... But the rest of silliness about white people having it harder than minorities was the giveaway. > The opposite is also true: "Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someon…

>> But the rest of silliness about white people having it harder than minorities was the giveaway. I grew up poor, light skin (white?) part Scottish descent small part Native American Indian. I trained myself to get into the profession I love, buying my own books and writing code in several languages for a dozen years on the side while maintaining a full time job and family, before I started writing code for pay. No…

Right, but you're light skinned. Imagine that, in addition to all the hardships you probably had to overcome, you also had to deal with systemic racism because you had dark skin.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#307

Post by flyinRyan »

clarky07 wrote: post #241
arrrg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, that's not how it works. If you are white the odds are massively stacked in your favor. That doesn't mean you can't lose, but it's less likely. All AA does is fudge the odds a bit in the other direction. No more. Just stopping to discriminate would do nothing – because that's for the most part not the reason why the odds are stacked against minorities. Structural racism is the reason. Society is constructed in a…

Note the comment below. People in poverty in America by race ~24 mil white ~11 mil black ~14 mil hispanic I cannot and will not believe that in 2012 we have structural racism in America, the day after a black man named Barack Hussein Obama got elected to his second term as President of the United States. Is their racism? Yes. Is it structural and 100% pervasive? No. The reason they have less opportunities is a struct…

Oh here we go. White man's troubles and all that. The problem with those minorities is they're just lazy and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Thanks for at least refraining from using the N word.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#308

Post by flyinRyan »

Natsu wrote: post #297
Synthetase wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

African Americans constitute 15% of America. White Americans constitute 74% of America. Thus African Americans are more than twice as likely to live under the poverty line. Those are not I odds I would like to gamble with had I been born black. You won a lottery when you were born.

Merely being born American made us winners in that lottery, if you get down to it. Is anyone really against the idea that all 49 million need help?

You mean being born a first world country. But there are other first world countries that have better average quality of life than the US.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#309

Post by dsfasdfadsf »

Dave9k wrote: post #299
eiwrwoeriu wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You can't turn back time and undo abuse Sure you can. The ancestors of those slaves are still suffering from that abuse. Your willful blindness is disgusting. The truth is that you are a racist. Only a racist would ignore all logic and pretend that the blacks of today are not a product of the slavery of yesterday. That the reason that they are poor and disadvantage compared to whites is because of the systematic op…

The fact that YOU want to discriminate based on skin color today means you are the only racist. Multiple races have faced systematic oppression eg. Chinese/Japanese/Jewish and are now some of the most successful in society. They didn't need affirmative action to get there.

Ha! Nice try Dave9K. No, if it sounds like a Duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, guess what? You are a racist. To call me a racist because I ask for restitution is laughable and shows your true colors. Affirmative Action is nothing compared to the restitution that blacks deserve.

So you talk about Jewish People. Here is Germany paying reparations to the jewish people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_I...

And you know what? They are specifically getting some restitution for slave labor. You know what, lets abolish Afirmative Action and instead give each black descendant of slaves 1 million dollars. This way the poor white man who wants to get into an ivy league college won't be discriminated against. Everybody wins, what do you say? If you still don't think this is fair then shut the f..ck up.

Even China and Korea are trying to get restitution from Japan. I could continue citing lots of other examples but why waste my time with a racist like you. You are probably the same as Holocaust deniers.

So why is it racist for Blacks to try to get some restitution for hundreds of years of slavery? No, you are the racists. Is OK when your race is conducting racism but if anybody demands that you pay up for hundreds of years of slavery you cry foul and claim that you are being discrimated against. You disgust me. A poor example for a human.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#310

Post by pessimizer »

iy56 wrote: post #247
tg3 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but ignoring prior wrongs also don't make them right. The goal should be to try to make the shackled man whole again, not just free. To give him what he needs to participate in society as if he had never been shackled. It doesn't take much statistical or anecdotal evidence to see that we are a long way off from that ideal scenario.

Many people disagree with you about what the goal should be. You can't turn back time and undo abuse. Trying to do so is just a waste of resources. In the race metaphor, the solution would be to just make sure everyone starts on a even footing in the next heat. In real life, I would say that means making sure all children have equal access to healthcare and education, regardless of their parents' income or circumstan…

>making sure all children have equal access to healthcare and education, regardless of their parents' income or circumstances.

So instead of affirmative action, radical income and property redistribution? I've never heard communism put forth as an alternative to affirmative action, but I'm all for it.

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