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Stop telling people to vote

jwz.org

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Re: Stop telling people to vote

#51

Post by saraid216 »

tomjen3 wrote: post #34
ekimekim wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I would have no problem with you tearing up the ballot. As long as you were forced to go there, collect it, and tear it up instead of voting. The important thing is that the effort required to vote or not vote should be the same. This prevents laziness, being too busy, as well as factors like transport or long lines from being part of your decision.

Would you have a problem with me instead voting for the closest equivalent of the nazi party? Especially if that becoame the party to turn to for those of us who don't like to be forced to vote.

> Would you have a problem with me instead voting for the closest equivalent of the nazi party?

Go for it. Here's a list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism_in_North_America#United...

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#52

Post by saraid216 »

zobzu wrote: post #42
geuis wrote: post #9

I take a diametrically opposed viewpoint to this. Everyone should be required to vote. In Australia, among other nations, if you don't vote you pay a fine. Voting in the U.S. should be as mandatory as jury duty, if not more so. When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. There's this view in…

Fuck you. And yes, I'm taking the post author's words here. Because he's right. You're brainwashed. Your vote actually means zero. ZERO. It's an illusion of choice, NOTHING more. So yeah, fuck you and your peers.

Votes aren't supposed to be meaningful. They're just analytics. Why should it be meaningful?

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#53

Post by waterlesscloud »

dllthomas wrote: post #21

" Corrolary: You should vote "NO" on every Proposition unless you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. The California Proposition system is asinine, and the way to do least harm is to reject by default. " This is half correct, and that half is very much my policy. If the proposition is for something the legislature can and should be doing, I vote no; we are paying people to give these issues more time an…

California now has both legislative houses with supermajorities for Democrats.

No excuses going forward.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#54

Post by saraid216 »

bmelton wrote: post #6
josnyder wrote: post #4

jwz's thesis, that uninformed people shouldn't vote, is overwhelmingly correct. I consider myself to be well-informed, politically speaking. Yet I voted in only 7 of 17 races on my ballot. I am not, for example, equipped to make informed choices for my jurisdiction's school board. All ballots should come with a "No vote" option. What would the difference be from just leaving it blank? Nothing, except that it would gi…

It's worse than that even. Having served as an election judge (and hence been obliged to assist those who needed it), many people needing help will ask "Which of these is the Republican option?" (where Republican = their party affiliation), even on issues that weren't particularly partisan, or national, or that even made sense. The tact there being that party affiliation was more important than expressing their own c…

It's pretty basic tribalism. "I am a Republican. Therefore, I will vote for the Republican option, unless I have an actual reason not to."

In front of that, there's probably, "My parents were Republican. My family is Republican. My friends are Republican." And so on.

%s/Republican/Democrat/g

This isn't actually wrong, per se. It's a basic affirmation of trust in one's close network. Some people go to church without bothering to believe in God; they go because they've always gone and their parents go and their friends are there and they discuss the football game or whatever. They're passionate about things because all of their friends are passionate about it.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#55

Post by saraid216 »

josnyder wrote: post #4

jwz's thesis, that uninformed people shouldn't vote, is overwhelmingly correct. I consider myself to be well-informed, politically speaking. Yet I voted in only 7 of 17 races on my ballot. I am not, for example, equipped to make informed choices for my jurisdiction's school board. All ballots should come with a "No vote" option. What would the difference be from just leaving it blank? Nothing, except that it would gi…

> jwz's thesis, that uninformed people shouldn't vote, is overwhelmingly correct.

Uh, unjustified assertion ftw? Please tell me the rest of that paragraph isn't supposed to be the justification.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#56

Post by swah »

geuis wrote: post #9

I take a diametrically opposed viewpoint to this. Everyone should be required to vote. In Australia, among other nations, if you don't vote you pay a fine. Voting in the U.S. should be as mandatory as jury duty, if not more so. When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. There's this view in…

Then you have to vote null to signal that no candidate that you like is available. Much better to signal that by staying at home.

Brazil has required voting... and it sucks IMO. Uninterested people have to vote and use the opportunity to elect a clown (google Tiririca deputado) or sell their votes for some food.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#57

Post by EliRivers »

zanny wrote: post #44
evoxed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the US population would react so well to a non-voter fine, but I do think it would be interesting to see what effect there would be if an automatic tax deduction or rebate was offered. I suppose you run the risk of disincentivizing a few very young voters, but the perspective would seem much more appealing (hopefully forcing less quibbles over the 'point' or allocation of taxes).

As an American, I want people to vote who want to vote and for no other reason. They should have nothing stopping them from voting if they want to, and nothing artificially pushing them towards doing so either. The big problem in America with voting is that election day is not a national holiday. If there should be any incentive to vote, there should be fines for employers who don't give election day off (not saying…

Would you meet halfway on this? How about a box on the ballot marked "I choose not to vote in this election"?

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#58

Post by ryandvm »

EliRivers wrote: post #57
zanny wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I want people to vote who want to vote and for no other reason. They should have nothing stopping them from voting if they want to, and nothing artificially pushing them towards doing so either. The big problem in America with voting is that election day is not a national holiday. If there should be any incentive to vote, there should be fines for employers who don't give election day off (not saying…

Would you meet halfway on this? How about a box on the ballot marked "I choose not to vote in this election"?

In the United States, it's perfectly valid to submit an unmarked ballot.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#59

Post by jrogers65 »

geuis wrote: post #9

I take a diametrically opposed viewpoint to this. Everyone should be required to vote. In Australia, among other nations, if you don't vote you pay a fine. Voting in the U.S. should be as mandatory as jury duty, if not more so. When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. There's this view in…

The problem with compulsory voting is that no box exists on ballot papers for many perspectives.

For example, I strongly believe that representative democracy (the common kind) is a farce and do not want to be represented by anybody but myself. The ballot papers make no room for this attitude - everything is framed in terms of the current system which is that either Bob or John will represent you.

It is analogous to the question "how often do you beat your wife?", which is loaded with the assumption that one beats his wife. Similarly, the voting systems we are talking about make the assumption that the person agrees with representative democracy.

Considering that I pay taxes and contribute to this society, it is, frankly, an injustice that my opinion is not represented in the least.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#60

Post by EliRivers »

ryandvm wrote: post #58
EliRivers wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you meet halfway on this? How about a box on the ballot marked "I choose not to vote in this election"?

In the United States, it's perfectly valid to submit an unmarked ballot.

But currently you don't HAVE to go to the polls and submit an unmarked ballot.
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