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Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

blogit.michelin.io

21–30 of 135 posts

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#21

Slightly off topic, but I find it to be a testament of how software has already eaten the world when friggin Michelin has a tech blog. What's next? General Electric releasing a frontend framework?

You'd be surprised: https://www.ethosdesignsystem.com/

(okay it's a design system, not so much a framework, but still)

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure has some pretty big downsides last i looked: - syntax is hard to read unless you spend a lot time getting used to it - convention for short var names makes it even harder - function definition order makes it even harder - too dynamic for most people's taste - no type safety - the opposite of boring - no clear use case to show it clearly beating other languages - niche with small community and job market - JVM…

Moby Dick is too hard to read. They should make it shorter with a limited vocabulary.

I kinda get where you're trying to go, but is Moby Dick style writing the best way to convey information?

That is, prose is good for entertainment, but less so for conveying information, even less so for exactness.

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#24
post #23

Can someone enlighten me about the REPL that lispers keep raving about? Isn't it more-or-less the same as the Python REPL?

it is very similar, but it is easier to evaluate sub-expressions thanks to the unique syntax of lisp.

there's a detailed explanation here: https://youtu.be/Djsg33AN7CU?t=659

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#25
post #23

Can someone enlighten me about the REPL that lispers keep raving about? Isn't it more-or-less the same as the Python REPL?

More or less, yes. It's more about the approach to the repl and how it is leveraged in development, or even jacking in to a running system and modifying it as it is running.

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#26
post #14
post #4

It's good to read that Clojure is getting more and more exposure. I write Clojure fpr my day job and wouldn't want to swap it for anything. The community is small but very helpfull and easy reachable. The learning curve is steap indeed, but very much worth it!

Clojure has some pretty big downsides last i looked: - syntax is hard to read unless you spend a lot time getting used to it - convention for short var names makes it even harder - function definition order makes it even harder - too dynamic for most people's taste - no type safety - the opposite of boring - no clear use case to show it clearly beating other languages - niche with small community and job market - JVM…

I am a Clojure fan and would love to use it. But you are right, we live in a real world where money talks and most organizations want to see developers as cheap, replaceable commodities.

Not to mention in a post AI world, cost of code generation is cheap, so orgs even need even fewer devs, combine all this with commonly used languages and frameworks and you need not worry about - "too valuable to replace or fire".

Having said that - there may be a (very) small percentage of orgs which care about people, code crafting and quality and may look at Clojure as a good option.

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#27
post #14
post #4

It's good to read that Clojure is getting more and more exposure. I write Clojure fpr my day job and wouldn't want to swap it for anything. The community is small but very helpfull and easy reachable. The learning curve is steap indeed, but very much worth it!

Clojure has some pretty big downsides last i looked: - syntax is hard to read unless you spend a lot time getting used to it - convention for short var names makes it even harder - function definition order makes it even harder - too dynamic for most people's taste - no type safety - the opposite of boring - no clear use case to show it clearly beating other languages - niche with small community and job market - JVM…

The JVM is one of the major selling points of Clojure. You can "write once, run anywhere" and benefit from Java's massive ecosystem, all without having to use a Blub language. Modern JVM implementations are also incredibly fast, often comparable in performance to C++ and Go.

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure has some pretty big downsides last i looked: - syntax is hard to read unless you spend a lot time getting used to it - convention for short var names makes it even harder - function definition order makes it even harder - too dynamic for most people's taste - no type safety - the opposite of boring - no clear use case to show it clearly beating other languages - niche with small community and job market - JVM…

Most of those seem very subjective with many people having the exact opposite opinion.

yes it's just my opinion. but Clojure's market share is tiny so there must be something to that.

it's not even in the top 50 here: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/. Lisp is 26.

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#29

every time i go back to writing non-clojure code outside of repl-driven environment i feel like a cave man banging rocks against each other no amount of ide smartness or agentic shenanigans is going to replace the feeling of having development process in sync with your thought process

You just made me wonder if REPL driven development and LLMs can be better combined somehow.

This is already a strong theme in the Clojure ecosystem, e.g.:

https://github.com/BetterThanTomorrow/calva-backseat-driver

Re: Bringing Clojure programming to Enterprise (2021)

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure has some pretty big downsides last i looked: - syntax is hard to read unless you spend a lot time getting used to it - convention for short var names makes it even harder - function definition order makes it even harder - too dynamic for most people's taste - no type safety - the opposite of boring - no clear use case to show it clearly beating other languages - niche with small community and job market - JVM…

The JVM is one of the major selling points of Clojure. You can "write once, run anywhere" and benefit from Java's massive ecosystem, all without having to use a Blub language. Modern JVM implementations are also incredibly fast, often comparable in performance to C++ and Go.

i don't think you're wrong necessarily...but rust, golang, zig, mojo, etc are gaining popularity and imo they wouldn't be if they were JVM languages.
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