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Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

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Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#61

Post by throwforfeds »

amriksohata wrote: post #57

Many of these philosophies are repackaged Hindu traditions

My teacher (former gelug monk of 20+ years) said during one talk years ago that Buddhism could be considered a form of Hinduism, as of course there are so many streams of Hinduism and no singular form of it. Buddhism had to be in dialogue with the environment that it sprung from, even if it rejected core tenants of mainstream "Hinduism" of the time (primarily caste, ritual purity, the denial of atman, etc). And of course the Jains were doing similar things in that early period.

So yeah, Buddhism came out of Hindu tradition, and Hindu tradition brought teachings from Buddhists back into their spiritual paths as well (like Hatha yoga in the Amrtasiddhi [1] and even Patanjali's yoga sutras contain a good amount of early Buddhism in it [2]). It's almost as if the teachings on interdependence are correct!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritasiddhi

[2] https://www.academia.edu/25517181/Some_Problematic_Yoga_Sutr...

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#62

Post by amenhotep »

trane_project wrote: post #30
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like other religions, buddhism can help reach a better state of mind. But there is no proof for the idea of repeated rebirths and karma.

There is plenty of proof, just not the type of proof likely to be accepted by people looking for a measurement from an external device, which precludes scientific proof until consciousness can be measured. Given that science cannot identify consciousness in live organisms at this time, you are going to have to wait a long time. In general, there are three commonly accepted methods in Buddhist epistemology to know if…

It is difficult not to dismiss this sort of proof out of hand, because every religion engages in it. Buddhism can probably (?) coexist with many deist religions, but few of them can coexist with each other.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#63

Post by prieveschl »

snayan wrote: post #55
prieveschl wrote: post #8

This was a great article, thanks so much for sharing. As a buddhist who started in Tibetan Vajrayana as a teenager and has ended up chanting NMRK in the SGI, I can appreciate that faith, like human beings, adapts to its time and surroundings. While personal gain and financial enrichment and the like have infected almost every faith there is on earth (we are all fallible to some extent) the through line of an ever-nar…

I'll admit I know very little about Buddhism beyond what I learned at a Vipassana retreat a little while ago. My own journey has led me to believe that it is the ego that stands in the way of us realizing our true nature. I believe we are born into a state of non-duality, and over time our lived experience is harnessed by the ego to create the separate false self. To use your jewel example, our perception is distorte…

Indeed the ego and its power to drive advancement can be forces for good, and your example of this chat is a perfect one. How amazing we get to share POVs from across the globe in seconds, hopefully broadening our own and anyone who looks in’s horizons of understanding and ultimately truth (whatever that means). But this “hard” problem of consciousness seems to always get in the way of my understanding of the concept of enlightenment. I try to see it in the word, enlightenment - to lighten the weight of - and perhaps view it as a moment to moment practice of continually lightening the ever-present load of suffering, ego, and consciousness. Be here we are again, up against the hard problem, a metacognizant trying to use the mind to describe the process of getting around the mind.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#64

Post by snayan »

prieveschl wrote: post #63
snayan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll admit I know very little about Buddhism beyond what I learned at a Vipassana retreat a little while ago. My own journey has led me to believe that it is the ego that stands in the way of us realizing our true nature. I believe we are born into a state of non-duality, and over time our lived experience is harnessed by the ego to create the separate false self. To use your jewel example, our perception is distorte…

Indeed the ego and its power to drive advancement can be forces for good, and your example of this chat is a perfect one. How amazing we get to share POVs from across the globe in seconds, hopefully broadening our own and anyone who looks in’s horizons of understanding and ultimately truth (whatever that means). But this “hard” problem of consciousness seems to always get in the way of my understanding of the concept…

Amen brother. I spun myself in circles for decades, but read a few books by Jed McKenna last year that helped me get out of my own way as it were. The process of what he calls spiritual autolysis, which is basically just writing your beliefs down and asking what is true was deeply impactful in my own journey. Give him a read if you're open to attacking the problem from a different angle.

My take at present: All our beliefs are nonsense that has been ingrained in us through our lived experience. Our perception of suffering is these beliefs creating craving or aversion, which results in discontent with whatever happens because we want it to be otherwise. The process of dismantling our belief structure is a road to the reduction of suffering and an acceptance of what is. Ultimately, this road leads to understanding that no-self is true self as you begin to appreciate that what you thought of as yourself is just the amalgamation of a bunch of false beliefs you've picked up over the course of your life. I think enlightenment is simply a state of contentment and equanimity with what is, that is achieved by removing all beliefs.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#65

Post by prieveschl »

snayan wrote: post #64
prieveschl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed the ego and its power to drive advancement can be forces for good, and your example of this chat is a perfect one. How amazing we get to share POVs from across the globe in seconds, hopefully broadening our own and anyone who looks in’s horizons of understanding and ultimately truth (whatever that means). But this “hard” problem of consciousness seems to always get in the way of my understanding of the concept…

Amen brother. I spun myself in circles for decades, but read a few books by Jed McKenna last year that helped me get out of my own way as it were. The process of what he calls spiritual autolysis, which is basically just writing your beliefs down and asking what is true was deeply impactful in my own journey. Give him a read if you're open to attacking the problem from a different angle. My take at present: All our b…

Thanks, I’ll have to give him a read. This concept of self and our our urgent obsession with the subjective experience is indeed a junk heap of ideas we’ve picked up along the way, or machines of reason and identity we’ve cobbled from the misguided cogs adopted in its construction or foisted upon us from others trying to make sense of their own jumbled notions of who they are. The more I ruminate on exactly who this self is - is it my consciousness, a figment of imagination, a device to escape entropy, a receptor pulling down from some universal wellspring, a support system designed to merely keep the flesh animated and alive, an adversary we concoct to challenge preconception and spur our continual evolution - the closer I approach a territory where the self no longer serves a purpose, at least not in the way I always thought it must, and that simply being is the most honest manifestation of this thing we call enlightenment. Being without a need to understand the self, to live in the vast unknowing, and truly be ok with that.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#66

Post by achierius »

stared wrote: post #18
helterskelter wrote: post #6

Interesting article, I've been thinking about this lately myself. Buddhism influenced German philosophy in the 1800's through Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, which basically influenced everything that came afterwards, and it also influenced art through Dada which you could argue was really a crypto-Buddhist/Taoism fusion expressed through a somewhat distorted Western lens, and that really goes on to influence postmoderni…

Buddhist influence on the West is way older. It goes back to Hellenistic era, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_art Not unlikely Christianity was influenced by Buddhism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity . And certain groups, especially a Gnostic creed Catharism, has a lot of similarities.

This comment is rather uninformed. Greco-Buddhist art was real, yes, but emerged far away from the geologic 'West' -- in Bactria, at the edge of India, where Hellenic garrisons had established a kingdom after the collapse of Alexander the Great's empire. We have very little evidence of feedback from there to the west, and so little potential for Buddhism to influence the development of later Greek society or e.g. Rome.

The most we have are faint gestures at how some Buddhists could indeed have been alive in the same place, at the same time, as early Christians. But Christ himself, as far as we know, never referenced Buddha or any Buddhist works, never interacted with a practitioner of the faith (or even referred to one), and all the same applies to the Apostles.

E.g. nobody would suggest that Buddhism was particularly influenced by Greek religious thinking, but we know with certainty that Greeks were present in the region due to their service in the Persian empire of the time.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#67

Post by w10-1 »

flats wrote: post #35
w10-1 wrote: post #31

> as far as conversion goes, it seems that it is Buddhism that has embraced California rather than the other way around That's not really the measure (and to be expected: Bodhisattva's always work within their context) As early as 1960's Suzuki-Roshi would leave off temple duties at Sokoji because so many students wanted to learn meditation (and not just practice comforting rituals). For the Soto Zen and Vipassana tr…

I agree with almost all of this, & yes, retreats can be life-changing. They certainly have been for me! However, I do not understand this comment: For the Soto Zen and Vipassana traditions, practice is everything - not philosophy, opinion, or behavior. Right action is an essential element of the Noble Eightfold Path. I have myself found the teachings concerning behavior to be a central element of my practice as I hav…

(sorry for delayed response)

I agree about right action. I (shouldn't have) used "behavior" (probably idiosyncratically) to mean performative actions to signal compliance - projections for the sake of their impact, like holding opinions for the sake of the ensuing emotions (illusions) or expounding them for the sake of social acceptance. "Right action" I take as practice in all of one's interactions, just as dharma is philosophy and opinion, but as practice in thinking and communicating. Similarly, forms are maintained for practice purposes (not for weeding or highlighting people, etc.)

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#68

Post by flats »

w10-1 wrote: post #67
flats wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with almost all of this, & yes, retreats can be life-changing. They certainly have been for me! However, I do not understand this comment: For the Soto Zen and Vipassana traditions, practice is everything - not philosophy, opinion, or behavior. Right action is an essential element of the Noble Eightfold Path. I have myself found the teachings concerning behavior to be a central element of my practice as I hav…

(sorry for delayed response) I agree about right action. I (shouldn't have) used "behavior" (probably idiosyncratically) to mean performative actions to signal compliance - projections for the sake of their impact, like holding opinions for the sake of the ensuing emotions (illusions) or expounding them for the sake of social acceptance. "Right action" I take as practice in all of one's interactions, just as dharma i…

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!
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