Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024) • Hacker News Board

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#31

Post by w10-1 » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 1:03 AM UTC

> as far as conversion goes, it seems that it is Buddhism that has embraced California rather than the other way around

That's not really the measure (and to be expected: Bodhisattva's always work within their context)

As early as 1960's Suzuki-Roshi would leave off temple duties at Sokoji because so many students wanted to learn meditation (and not just practice comforting rituals). For the Soto Zen and Vipassana traditions, practice is everything - not philosophy, opinion, or behavior.

Yes, it's nice that the West has embraced Buddhism and that Buddhism has managed to provide a philosophical counterpoint without actually conflicting.

But thousands - hundreds of thousands? - of people have gone through deep meditation training in the Soto Zen and Vipassana traditions (coast to coast); for most it has been life-changing. That wasn't due to "Buddhism" but to the lifelong commitment of (on the order of a hundred) effective teachers (many of whom are now aging out).

I would recommend at some point in anyone's life, that they build up to some deep meditation practice - weeks-long sessions - from real teachers in these longstanding traditions. There's nothing better for opening the envelope of life.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#32

Post by trane_project » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 1:14 AM UTC

daoboy wrote: post #26

The majority of my encounters with West Coast Buddhism have been... off-putting. Particularly in the SF tech scene, there is an unfortunate 'competitive enlightenment' vibe amongst many of those who profess to follow Buddhist teachings. "Oh, you've only attained the second jhāna? I got through all four on my first try." I am certain there are plenty of genuine and sincere practitioners out there, but my small sample…

If it's any consolation, they are full of shit. In the second jhana and above, the factors of initial and sustained attention disappear. In practical terms, this means you cannot direct your thoughts away from the object of concentration once you enter such state. You have to decide beforehand how long you will be in that state and give yourself a mental timer. See Dipa Ma's biography for a case of someone actually entering higher jhanas that way.

This is the reason that anything beyond the first dhyana is not encouraged in Mahayana, as it is impossible to apply vipasyana in a state of concentration so deep that you cannot direct your mind.

The teachers popular in the SF scene are inflating their own achievements and the ones of their students by using very lightweight criteria. I had that experience when I attended a TWIM retreat before their founder died. According to them, I reached the fourth or fifth jhana. I can assure you I did not.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#33

Post by jmspring » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 1:26 AM UTC

daoboy wrote: post #26

The majority of my encounters with West Coast Buddhism have been... off-putting. Particularly in the SF tech scene, there is an unfortunate 'competitive enlightenment' vibe amongst many of those who profess to follow Buddhist teachings. "Oh, you've only attained the second jhāna? I got through all four on my first try." I am certain there are plenty of genuine and sincere practitioners out there, but my small sample…

I worked in SF prior to the dotcom bust. Since I was commuting and made a day of when I had to be in the office. I took yoga with Larry Schultz - the yoga teach for the Grateful Dead, he had a studio near 4th and Brannon (I believe, memory foggy). He was great to listen to stories and learn from.

As mentioned in another post, I've been to SF Zen Center events both in practice and adjacent classes.

The tech scene now has become much more narcissistic than it was then. I didn't see the evolution as clearly as I did in Palo Alto while working there and in Mountain View.

I would not couple the tech scene with spiritual practices themselves. Judge the so called practicioners not the practice / practice instructors/organization.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#34

Post by pasquinelli » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 1:30 AM UTC

trane_project wrote: post #24

"But the cost of the mindfulness revolution has been Buddhism’s lost monopoly on many of its core concepts. Very few of those using Buddhist practices will ever become Buddhists in a religious sense. California Buddhism is one of the most successful cultural syntheses of the last century; but as far as conversion goes, it seems that it is Buddhism that has embraced California rather than the other way around." Pretty…

> Finding a qualified teacher becomes very difficult if you are actually interested in Buddhism.

you can find that same complaint 1000 years ago.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#35

Post by flats » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 1:43 AM UTC

w10-1 wrote: post #31

> as far as conversion goes, it seems that it is Buddhism that has embraced California rather than the other way around That's not really the measure (and to be expected: Bodhisattva's always work within their context) As early as 1960's Suzuki-Roshi would leave off temple duties at Sokoji because so many students wanted to learn meditation (and not just practice comforting rituals). For the Soto Zen and Vipassana tr…

I agree with almost all of this, & yes, retreats can be life-changing. They certainly have been for me!

However, I do not understand this comment:

For the Soto Zen and Vipassana traditions, practice is everything - not philosophy, opinion, or behavior.

Right action is an essential element of the Noble Eightfold Path. I have myself found the teachings concerning behavior to be a central element of my practice as I have gone deeper with the dhamma.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#36

Post by dbtc » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 2:03 AM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #27

stared wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhist influence on the West is way older. It goes back to Hellenistic era, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_art Not unlikely Christianity was influenced by Buddhism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity . And certain groups, especially a Gnostic creed Catharism, has a lot of similarities.

Reminds me of the movie Man from Earth (don't watch the sequel). The precepts of both Christ and the Buddha are quite striking in their similarities, but perhaps both are a manifestation of an even deeper principle, of what it means to be a good person.

If you rephrase this as succinctly as you can you'll end up quoting the Dao de Jing.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#37

Post by satvikpendem » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 2:10 AM UTC

dbtc wrote: post #36

satvikpendem wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the movie Man from Earth (don't watch the sequel). The precepts of both Christ and the Buddha are quite striking in their similarities, but perhaps both are a manifestation of an even deeper principle, of what it means to be a good person.

If you rephrase this as succinctly as you can you'll end up quoting the Dao de Jing.

The source of that comes from somewhere too, as it's still a human made construction. It seems like being "good" is simply advantageous to us as a species, hence why it is in all religions.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#38

Post by akoboldfrying » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 2:17 AM UTC

MassPikeMike wrote: post #9

The article "FTFY Buddhist Ethics" [1] comes to a similar conclusion about the development of West Coast Buddhism but isn't on board with it. IMHO an interesting contrarian take. [1] https://vividness.live/ftfy-buddhist-ethics

Thank you for linking to this. Years ago I chanced upon this website, and it was my first experience of reading something about Buddhism that seemed to consciously strive for clarity, for intelligibility to an interested layperson, rather than for what I'll call "easy mysticism" for its own sake.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#39

Post by crocodile10203 » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 2:48 AM UTC

threethirtytwo wrote: post #14

Honest question: Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? I don't mean side stuff like meditation improves your IQ I mean does the fundamental point of buddihism have any basis in reality. If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

> If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

Because it sounds cool and intellectual.

This is the same reason crypto-buddhist "philosophies" became popular in the Hindu-sphere post the decline of Ancient Vedic religion, which had no concept of rebirth and rather focused on Rta (cosmic / natural order), vrata (duty), kratu (will) etc...

Looking enlightened is more important than actually being enlightened.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#40

Post by _doctor_love » Mon, Mar 30, 2026, 3:54 AM UTC

thinkling wrote: post #22

_doctor_love wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? These are Buddhist questions. :) The Buddha famously told his followers not to accept his teaching merely because he said it, instead he told them to "go and see for yourself." The point is that if you want to know if buddhism is real , try out the practices and see if they make sense to you and make a difference. If the…

+1 on most of this. A small note: I think “suffering” is an unfortunate translation as it connotes dire circumstances or real pain, whereas I understand dukkha to include simple discontent, dissatisfaction, and stress. I take the Buddha to have said roughly, “I teach the origin of unhappiness and how to liberate yourself from it.”

> I think “suffering” is an unfortunate translation as it connotes dire circumstances or real pain, whereas I understand dukkha to include simple discontent, dissatisfaction, and stress.

Agree. Suffering doesn't send the right message in terms of what the word is trying to signal. The best version I've heard is likening life to a carriage ride, and the wheel is just never quite right, so it's always just a little bit uncomfortable. Nothing's just ever quite right.