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Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

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Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#21

Post by jackschultz »

_fw wrote: post #3

I was surprised to see Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzburg and Joseph Goldstein not mentioned here. They’re the founding forces behind the Insight Meditation Society in MA, which although isn’t the West Coast, is perhaps the most influential force in popular Buddhism in the West. Kornfield also set up Spirit Rock Meditation Centre in California though, which gets tens of thousands of visitors a year. Having dived really…

Be Here Now network, which started with Ram Dass, still does mostly weekly videos from Goldstein and Kornfield. Search for their names where you listen to your podcasts. Incredibly good to listen to.

Other ones I listen to are in the Thai Forrest Tradition, started from Ajahn Chah and now talks from Abhayagiri, Amaravati. Other one from Mahayana, which has so many talks and probably the best book I've read, Seeing That Frees, is Rob Burbea. He died from cancer in 2020, which is incredibly sad given how young he still was and much he's produced for us.

All of these people give different angles on the teachings of the Buddha. I highly suggest listening and reading from these people and the differing traditions all talking for similar goals of how to look at the world for the acknowledgement of dukkha (pain / suffering) and how to deal with it. You don't need to sit and meditate either to get the benefits.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#22

Post by thinkling »

_doctor_love wrote: post #17
threethirtytwo wrote: post #14

Honest question: Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? I don't mean side stuff like meditation improves your IQ I mean does the fundamental point of buddihism have any basis in reality. If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

> Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? These are Buddhist questions. :) The Buddha famously told his followers not to accept his teaching merely because he said it, instead he told them to "go and see for yourself." The point is that if you want to know if buddhism is real , try out the practices and see if they make sense to you and make a difference. If the…

+1 on most of this. A small note: I think “suffering” is an unfortunate translation as it connotes dire circumstances or real pain, whereas I understand dukkha to include simple discontent, dissatisfaction, and stress. I take the Buddha to have said roughly, “I teach the origin of unhappiness and how to liberate yourself from it.”

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#24

Post by trane_project »

"But the cost of the mindfulness revolution has been Buddhism’s lost monopoly on many of its core concepts. Very few of those using Buddhist practices will ever become Buddhists in a religious sense. California Buddhism is one of the most successful cultural syntheses of the last century; but as far as conversion goes, it seems that it is Buddhism that has embraced California rather than the other way around."

Pretty much. Sad state of affairs. I don't care if people find something positive in Buddhism and offer their own takes, but too many people call their offerings "Buddhism" for the clout. Finding a qualified teacher becomes very difficult if you are actually interested in Buddhism.

On the positive side, I don't actually agree with the first sentence. You still have to find a proper Buddhist teacher if you want to be taught the good stuff. Even if you found the instructions somehow, it either requires proper motivation (at which point you are a buddhist) or a transmission for those methods to actually work.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#25

Post by Mathnerd314 »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #14

Honest question: Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? I don't mean side stuff like meditation improves your IQ I mean does the fundamental point of buddihism have any basis in reality. If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

Well, if you come at it from the mindfulness angle, there are real studies showing that mindfulness works. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8083197/ and similarly, if you come at it from the religious angle, you can trace a lot of the aspects of mindfulness back to the Buddha's original teachings as recorded in canon. And if you ask if there is a fundamental point beyond those, I think the answer is that there is none recorded - the best description I have been able to get of Nirvana is that it is a state of perfect mindfulness.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#26

Post by daoboy »

The majority of my encounters with West Coast Buddhism have been... off-putting.

Particularly in the SF tech scene, there is an unfortunate 'competitive enlightenment' vibe amongst many of those who profess to follow Buddhist teachings. "Oh, you've only attained the second jhāna? I got through all four on my first try."

I am certain there are plenty of genuine and sincere practitioners out there, but my small sample has not included any.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#27

Post by satvikpendem »

stared wrote: post #18
helterskelter wrote: post #6

Interesting article, I've been thinking about this lately myself. Buddhism influenced German philosophy in the 1800's through Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, which basically influenced everything that came afterwards, and it also influenced art through Dada which you could argue was really a crypto-Buddhist/Taoism fusion expressed through a somewhat distorted Western lens, and that really goes on to influence postmoderni…

Buddhist influence on the West is way older. It goes back to Hellenistic era, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_art Not unlikely Christianity was influenced by Buddhism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity . And certain groups, especially a Gnostic creed Catharism, has a lot of similarities.

Reminds me of the movie Man from Earth (don't watch the sequel). The precepts of both Christ and the Buddha are quite striking in their similarities, but perhaps both are a manifestation of an even deeper principle, of what it means to be a good person.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#28

Post by jmspring »

I’m not digging into beliefs and the like. I’ve been to Tassajara Zen Center as well as Green Gulch. SF Zen Center is a treasure.

The meditation room and part of the library were impacted by a fire recently - https://www.lionsroar.com/tassajara-zen-mountain-centers-zen...

Tassajara in the Santa Lucia range (south of Carmel valley) can be a harsh environment.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#29

Post by satvikpendem »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #14

Honest question: Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? I don't mean side stuff like meditation improves your IQ I mean does the fundamental point of buddihism have any basis in reality. If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

This is a strange question. It's like asking if Christianity has any basis in scientific and objective reality, which as a religion it does not, none do. It doesn't even make any sense to ask the question, like what does an objective reality of a religion even mean? You explicitly disclaimed discussion about the cognitive benefits of its practice so I'm not really sure what else you could be asking concretely.

Re: Creating West Coast Buddhism (2024)

#30

Post by trane_project »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #19
threethirtytwo wrote: post #14

Honest question: Is buddihsm real? Does it have any basis in scientific and objective reality? Or is it fiction? I don't mean side stuff like meditation improves your IQ I mean does the fundamental point of buddihism have any basis in reality. If it is fiction, why is it so popular among technical people like people who come to HN? Are the people on HN who are interested in Buddhism aware it is fiction/real?

Like other religions, buddhism can help reach a better state of mind. But there is no proof for the idea of repeated rebirths and karma.

There is plenty of proof, just not the type of proof likely to be accepted by people looking for a measurement from an external device, which precludes scientific proof until consciousness can be measured. Given that science cannot identify consciousness in live organisms at this time, you are going to have to wait a long time.

In general, there are three commonly accepted methods in Buddhist epistemology to know if something is true: perception, inference, and testimony. For the specific case of rebirth, common proofs use either perception, or inference.

- Perception: You train in states of concentration and use those to gain direct knowledge of past lives. Maybe some people would find this unconvincing even if they had the experience. Certainly not something likely to be accepted as scientific as Ian Stevenson's research has shown, even if the case presented was iron-clad.

- Inference: This uses Buddhist logic and an understanding of dependent origination. This specific argument comes from Dharmakīrti.

- Every moment of consciousness must have a substantial cause.

- Physical matter can serve as a cooperative condition for consciousness, but it cannot be consciousness's substantial cause, because matter and mind are fundamentally different in nature. Matter is extended, non-luminous, non-aware and consciousness is luminous and aware. If you are a scientific materialist, you will not accept this, but it must be noted that there is no scientific evidence of any kind for dead matter gaining awareness.

- Therefore, each moment of consciousness must arise from a preceding moment of consciousness of similar type.

- Then you trace this chain to the first moment of your present life. The chain must have been preceded by a moment of consciousness of similar type. The same logic applies to the last moment of your present life.

- Therefore, consciousness must be a stream that transcends physical birth and death.

Again, I am aware many people won't find this convincing, but to say that Buddhism does not attempt to prove rebirth and karma is not true.

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