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I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

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Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#51

Post by fallinditch »

surgical_fire wrote: post #39
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're self-aware perfectionists and are actively working to stop it, because they reach for all kinds of tools like grammar checkers and AI, but they're aware that using those will make the post lose "their" voice, or the human element of the post. And that's, I think, a valid choice; you can choose to use all the tools and make something gramatically and stylistically as close to perfect, but who would wan…

Reading what you write for editing does not make a text lose your voice. If anything, it amplifies it, you get to ensure that what you intended to say was said. Not reading what you write smells more like laziness. Same thing for spell checks, grammar checks, and even AI usage. If you use things lazily, the result will be lazy as well. Instead of asking for an AI tool to write your thoughts in your place, you can wri…

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Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#52

Post by jerukmangga »

watwut wrote: post #28
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're self-aware perfectionists and are actively working to stop it, because they reach for all kinds of tools like grammar checkers and AI, but they're aware that using those will make the post lose "their" voice, or the human element of the post. And that's, I think, a valid choice; you can choose to use all the tools and make something gramatically and stylistically as close to perfect, but who would wan…

If you use grammar checker as a grammar checker, it wont make you loose your voice. It will make you use correct grammar. > you can choose to use all the tools and make something gramatically and stylistically as close to perfect, but who would want to read something as dry If it is dry, then it is not stylistically perfect. Per definition, dry writing is just an imperfect writing. Stylistically perfect writing does…

I see both sides here. Wanting to preserve your natural voice is valid, but editing and using tools don't necessarily take that away. In fact, they can help make your intended message clearer. It probably comes down to how much control you keep over the final result rather than wheater you use tools at all.

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#54

Post by heavyset_go »

nusl wrote: post #10
dude250711 wrote: post #9

There is no grandiose "AI era". Or it started like in 1950s already. What it is going to be is a 'Slop Decade' - a much better label if you insist on having one.

The slop decade will be a slop "rest of humanity." There's no going back from this.

I think some spaces will try to retain their value by actively combating LLMs, in the same way they combat hackers and trolls, and if they don't, they'll naturally die.

Several subreddits became AI slop submission repositories and their human engagement dwindled. Some subreddits that were inundated with AI slop implemented policies that ban it, and it seems to work well.

Strict no slop policies work, and surprisingly, so do rules that require AI submissions to be tagged as AI. Forcing slop slingers to tag their slop does a good job at discouraging said slop, it turns out that admitting your slop is slop is embarrassing or something.

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#55

Post by watwut »

jerukmangga wrote: post #52
watwut wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use grammar checker as a grammar checker, it wont make you loose your voice. It will make you use correct grammar. > you can choose to use all the tools and make something gramatically and stylistically as close to perfect, but who would want to read something as dry If it is dry, then it is not stylistically perfect. Per definition, dry writing is just an imperfect writing. Stylistically perfect writing does…

I see both sides here. Wanting to preserve your natural voice is valid, but editing and using tools don't necessarily take that away. In fact, they can help make your intended message clearer. It probably comes down to how much control you keep over the final result rather than wheater you use tools at all.

What annoys me here is that people say "I use AI as style checker to make my writing better" or claim that good writing is unfairly judged as being by AI ... and then proceed to describe inferior writing results they achieved with AI. None of what author wrote there signals that the way he uses AI made his writing better. His use of AI made his output inferior. And not just in a the "loosing own voice" way worst, but literally in the "the final text is less effective writing".

I do not mean this comment to be kick against AI. It is very good for some stuff, it is less good for other stuff. What annoys me is someone calling output superior while actually complaining about it being inferior.

Hey, maybe that llm needs to be used differently to achieve actually good writing results.

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#56

Post by nslsm »

simianwords wrote: post #34
stabbles wrote: post #33

Are grammatical errors and typos fashionable now? Reading this post it seems the anti-thesis in the LLM era is not to edit at all, but rather write down a stream of consciousness to make it "personal".

Definitely think it is. It will be glorious. We will focus more on content than on just aesthetic as people try to signal that they are not llm

Oh no, I have had enough of people with quirky (i.e. cringey) writing on the internet. It started with those who refused to use their shift key and it's quickly devolving into something that makes you shiver when you read it. (Not to mention how easy it is to use a system prompt to make an AI write in whatever style you like.)

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#58

Post by gjm11 »

thepasch wrote: post #8

I never use an LLM to paraphrase my own voice as a matter of principle, but I’ve still been repeatedly accused of doing so because I happen to always have written structured posts, used “smart quotes,” and done that negative comparison thing (it’s genuinely not just fluff, it’s a genuinely useful way to— ah god damn it). Sigh.

Right. The LLMs' quirks aren't bad in themselves, they're bad when they're in every damn paragraph. They're mostly things that in moderation actually improve writing, and that if you see them once (without the knowledge that they're things LLMs do) would rightly tend to make you think better of the author. And so, of course, in RLHF training they get rewarded, and unfortunately it's not so easy for an LLM to learn "it's good to do this thing a bit but not too much.

The structured thing you mention is the one that bugs me most. I genuinely think that most human writing would be improved by having more of the "signposts" that LLMs overuse. Headings, context-setting sentences, bullet points where appropriate, etc. I was doing "list of bullet points with boldfaced intro for each one" before the LLMs were. But because the LLMs are saturating their writing with it, we'll all learn to take it as a sign of glib superficiality and inauthenticity, and typical good human writing will start avoiding everything of that kind, and therefore get that little bit harder to read. Alas.

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#59

Post by roysting »

Freak_NL wrote: post #23
whilenot-dev wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that? I presume that's just the authors (sarcastic) way to say "beware: may contain typos and grammatical errors".

There are a bunch of typos in there which jar a bit ('deterioted'), but I guess that makes sense for this specific article. Personally, I would recommend them to simple use any old editor with spellchecking enabled. That suffices for most writing where you just want to keep your own voice. To me, the red crinkly line just means that I should edit that word myself. In the rare case where I'm stumped on the spelling I'…

The problem here, the overarching issue is that the subject complaint about AI slop is actually a bigger issue that has been plaguing America in particular for many years now, and of which the AI slop era is only a current top. The qualities of American writing have clearly been on a precipitous decline for a very long time now, predating AI slop and even spell checkers and computers.

Computers, digital text, and digital information distribution/transportation have made writing and thoughts cheap. Arguably due to what we are surely all aware of, humans rarely value that which is cheap, whether monetarily or in effort and consequential qualities. What people seem reluctant or maybe unable to acknowledge is that predating the current AI Slop, was what could be called Human Slop, low quality, low effort, careless output that was cheap; regardless of whether AI slop now outperforms.

It is why you are justified in pointing out that even in the post complaining about AI Slop, the human has apparently abandoned what would have been common practice in just the recent past, using basic spellcheckers or simply reviewing what was written and also practicing with deliberation; the art and skill of writing, grammar, and sentence structure.

No one is perfect and that is also what makes anything human, somewhat inexplicable and random variation. However, it takes a certain refinement before unique human character becomes a positive quality and is not just humans being sloppy ... human slop.

Re: I am definitely missing the pre-AI writing era

#60

Post by fleebee »

simianwords wrote: post #34
stabbles wrote: post #33

Are grammatical errors and typos fashionable now? Reading this post it seems the anti-thesis in the LLM era is not to edit at all, but rather write down a stream of consciousness to make it "personal".

Definitely think it is. It will be glorious. We will focus more on content than on just aesthetic as people try to signal that they are not llm

I feel like having to signal that you're a human detracts from the content side of things. Proper spelling and grammar, good style etc. are there to help you convey your ideas more accurately. Resorting to a stream of consciousness style of unrefined writing makes it apparent that you're a human, but the downside is that your text is bad.
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