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ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

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Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#211

Post by jasonfarnon »

dotancohen wrote: post #194
zdragnar wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hence he number of DOM elements stayed constant no matter how far you scroll and the only thing that grows is the Y coordinate. This is generally called virtual scrolling, and it is not only an option in many common table libraries, but there are plenty of standalone implementations and other libraries (lists and things) that offer it. The technique certainly didn't originate with Netflix.

And yet ChatGPT does not use it. GP was mentioning that a solution to the problem exists, not that Netflix specifically invented it. Your quip that the technique is not specific to Netflix bolsters the argument that OpenAI should code that in.

I'm ignorant of the tech here. But I have noticed that ctrl-F search doesn't work for me on these longer chats. Which is what made me think they were doing something like virtual scrolling. I can't understand how the UI can get so slow if a bunch of the page is being swapped out.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#212

Post by Muromec »

ctoth wrote: post #114
quotemstr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need ZKPs of humanity

No, we really don't. We don't need worldcoin, we don't need papers, please. We just don't. "Prove your humanity/age/other properties" with this mechanism quickly goes places you do not want it to go.

> quickly goes places you do not want it to go.

Which places?

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#213

Post by wilg »

mystraline wrote: post #171
vkou wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. How can first-party products protect themselves from abuse by OpenAI's bots and scraping?

This is a completely in-scope question. How do we defend against your scraping, OpenAI? I dont want any of my content scraped or seen by you all. Frankly, fuck you all for thinking my content is owned by you.

robots.txt bro https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/bots/

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#214

Post by oblio »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #153
pera wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't tell for sure (new user posting a ridiculously hypocritical corporate message on a Sunday) but if GP actually works for OpenAI the lack of self-awareness is seriously striking

How?

Because OpenAI built their entire business around shamelessly scraping anything that had bits on it.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#215

Post by magicseth »

0x3f wrote: post #162
tshaddox wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t really make sense, because any service can just say “you must paste your human-attestation JWT here to use this service” and plenty of people will.

You can just decay your trust level based on the `iat` value. That way people will need to keep buying me coffee. I can optionally chide them for giving out their token. If you're engaging with the idea seriously, I suppose we'd need to build a reputation or trust network or something. Although if you're talking about replay attacks specifically, there are other crypto based solutions for that.

I am engaging with this seriously! I don't know if there will be any real solution. But I think it's worth exploring.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#216

Post by huflungdung »

MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#217

Post by nikitaga »

Imnimo wrote: post #149
MyNameIsNickT wrote: post #49

Hey! I'm Nick, and I work on Integrity at OpenAI. These checks are part of how we protect our first-party products from abuse like bots, scraping, fraud, and other attempts to misuse the platform. A big reason we invest in this is because we want to keep free and logged-out access available for more users. My team’s goal is to help make sure the limited GPU resources are going to real users. We also keep a very close…

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things.

The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less.

It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity in this case is quite superficial.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#218

Post by bakugo »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

The cost is so marginal that many, many websites have been forced to add cloudflare captchas or PoW checks before letting anyone access them, because the server would slow to a crawl from 1000 scrapers hitting it at once otherwise.

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#219

Post by bdangubic »

gruez wrote: post #193
bdangubic wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they caught 11 million by now (just as arbitrary as your 0 but probably more accurate since we haven’t had a large terrorist attack since they got the gig to serve and protect and before we lost thousands of lives…)

>they caught 11 million by now (just as arbitrary as your 0 but probably more accurate Nice try but I used "caught", not "stopped", which requires they actually apprehended someone, not just prevented some hypothetical attack. >since they got the gig to serve and protect and before we lost thousands of lives…) You could easily reuse this argument for cloudflare: "if it wasn't for such invasive browser fingerprinting…

> “if it wasn't for such invasive browser fingerprinting openai would be drowning in bajillion req/s from bots."

of course they would be drowning! I have no issues with what CF is doing. too funny that people use tools like chatgpt and expect privacy?!

Re: ChatGPT won't let you type until Cloudflare reads your React state

#220

Post by nslsm »

nikitaga wrote: post #217
Imnimo wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that OpenAI considers scraping to be a form of abuse.

Scraping static content from a website at near-zero marginal cost to its server, vs scraping an expensive LLM service provided for free, are different things. The former relies on fairly controversial ideas about copyright and fair use to qualify as abuse, whereas the latter is direct financial damage – by your own direct competitors no less. It's fun to poke at a seeming hypocrisy of the big bad, but the similarity…

The issue is that there are so many awful webmasters that have websites that take hundreds of milliseconds to generate and are brought down by a couple requests a second.
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