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Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

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Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BGP and DNS run on TCP which runs on IP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model

In terms of understanding the Internet, the OSI model is less useful than the Internet model outlined in RFC 1122 and RFC 1123, because the OSI model persists in making distinctions without a difference, like the separation of the Application and Presentation layers. (Frankly, most of the time the Link layer is entirely determined by the Physical layer, so that distinction is also of marginal use in the real world.)…

OSI is what I learned in school an age-and-a-half ago, that's why I included that link also. :)

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the people affected, google was for all purposes "offline". If the estimate of 3–5% of the internet population is correct, that's a lot of people.

I think that if 3-5% of the Internet population suddenly stopped querying Google, Google would have noticed before CloudFlare.

There weren't any claims that Google were unaware of this. And when things happen at this level, resolving it in 27 minutes can only be done when there's direct contact between people that are able to do anything about it.

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#153
post #149
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this argument is that you are hypothesizing a case that, if it were going to be happening, would be happening now , not in the future. Yet it does not. There is no great epidemic of confused 911 operators because they can't make out whether or not someone on the other end used literally "correctly". While one can speculate on why you might be wrong about this being a problem, an examination of the wo…

There's no epidemic of any single problem being caused by any imprecision in grammar. But there are lots of little, similar problems -- perhaps in non-emergency situations -- that cause predictable, avoidable confusion because people insist on breaking the use of important words. If your point is that "we can make it impossible to communicate the concept 'literally' until there's an epidemic of deaths over it", then…

It was your implicit threshold you were setting with your argument, not mine. While I am gratified that you so thoroughly demolished your own argument for me, you might want to consider your arguments a bit more tactically in the future.

The real problem being caused here is well below the noise threshold and certainly not worth trying to play "Holier than thou" at people on the internet.

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#154
post #153
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no epidemic of any single problem being caused by any imprecision in grammar. But there are lots of little, similar problems -- perhaps in non-emergency situations -- that cause predictable, avoidable confusion because people insist on breaking the use of important words. If your point is that "we can make it impossible to communicate the concept 'literally' until there's an epidemic of deaths over it", then…

It was your implicit threshold you were setting with your argument, not mine. While I am gratified that you so thoroughly demolished your own argument for me, you might want to consider your arguments a bit more tactically in the future. The real problem being caused here is well below the noise threshold and certainly not worth trying to play "Holier than thou" at people on the internet.

>It was your implicit threshold you were setting with your argument, not mine

That wasn't my threshold; that was an example of a confusion that couldn't be disambiguated without clear terms for literal vs figurative; it's just that it had unusually large implications for a scenario that require fast, unambiguous communication. (I guess we don't have to care about these scenarios?)

Your own implicit threshold of "if someone doesn't die because if it, I can fuck up the communicative ability of a language however I feel like" is so thoroughly stupid, I doubt you even believe it yourself, yet feel the need to argue for it anyway.

In any case, I'm less concerned with who makes the best tactical moves than on discerning the best idea presented. As it stands, I don't yet see any justification for "let's get rid of this useful disambiguating feature for literal vs figurative" -- but feel free to keep offering them; maybe your knowledge of "tactics" could come in handy here, thought I doubt it. Tactical arguments don't make a language useful. Rather, substance does.

And any time you ever get around to telling me how to indicate the old meaning of "literally" you just let me know. I get that it's not a real high priority for you right now (based on how you think), and I'm not holding by breath or anything, but it would be really cool if you could pull it off. Thanks.

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#155

Sidenote: In the comments I saw a reply about nanog.com being a great plce to meet other networking peeps. http://www.nanog.com/ is currently showing a "Welcome to nginx" message

That's because the right address is http://www.nanog.org

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#156
post #155

Sidenote: In the comments I saw a reply about nanog.com being a great plce to meet other networking peeps. http://www.nanog.com/ is currently showing a "Welcome to nginx" message

That's because the right address is http://www.nanog.org

Ta muchly.

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#157
post #149
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this argument is that you are hypothesizing a case that, if it were going to be happening, would be happening now , not in the future. Yet it does not. There is no great epidemic of confused 911 operators because they can't make out whether or not someone on the other end used literally "correctly". While one can speculate on why you might be wrong about this being a problem, an examination of the wo…

There's no epidemic of any single problem being caused by any imprecision in grammar. But there are lots of little, similar problems -- perhaps in non-emergency situations -- that cause predictable, avoidable confusion because people insist on breaking the use of important words. If your point is that "we can make it impossible to communicate the concept 'literally' until there's an epidemic of deaths over it", then…

There are actually strong reasons to think ambiguity in certain cases is an asset in a language not a hindrance. This talk goes into it in part: http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thoug...

Re: Why Google Went Offline Today and a Bit about How the Internet Works

#158
post #154
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was your implicit threshold you were setting with your argument, not mine. While I am gratified that you so thoroughly demolished your own argument for me, you might want to consider your arguments a bit more tactically in the future. The real problem being caused here is well below the noise threshold and certainly not worth trying to play "Holier than thou" at people on the internet.

>It was your implicit threshold you were setting with your argument, not mine That wasn't my threshold; that was an example of a confusion that couldn't be disambiguated without clear terms for literal vs figurative; it's just that it had unusually large implications for a scenario that require fast, unambiguous communication. (I guess we don't have to care about these scenarios?) Your own implicit threshold of "if s…

The thing is it isn't a choice we are making now. It was made over 400 years ago and it works.
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