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‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

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Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#231

Post by downrightmike »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #55
pjc50 wrote: post #8

Fairly boilerplate article, but the bit that is news is the UK balcony solar permitting. Better longread: https://solarenergyconcepts.co.uk/post/plug-in-solar-uk/ Government press release with a long list of pull quotes: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-plug-i... (I note that in the alternate universe where Ed Miliband became PM because he didn't eat a bacon sandwich, we could have had this a dec…

He also removed the effective ban on onshore wind construction that was introduced a month after he lost the election, restarting after a decade of lost opportunity. This Trump-level idiocy that is just never mentioned, even as people blame the gas burned in england on windy days as a cost of wind curtailment, when the curtailment is more a like a third of the cost. Burning gas to power people who chose not to build…

WHY DO YOU HATE THE COAL BARONS SO MUCH? YOU'RE TAKING MONEY OUT OF THEIR MISTRESSES' MOUTHS

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#232

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #227
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the county utility the what now?

Do you not have a utility that covers one or a few counties where you live? Here it's some sort of strange public-private partnership scheme with private investment, strictly capped profits, and a few publicly elected officials at the top. I've also lived in places where the local government owned and managed the entire grid themselves, including directly employing the workers. I've also lived in places where the ope…

Here in New Mexico (USA), all power generation and distribution is privatized but theoretically overseen by a Public Regulation Committee. There are some co-operative generation and/or distribution organizations, but these are still private (and very regional in scope). No actual public utilities at all, though many here would like that.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#233

Post by conk »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #205
iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the answer may be more complex than that. I mean, I know you are not wrong. My boss only recently made a crack at how pointless solar energy is in the world of cheap gas. But it is not just cost. It is a level of control the contractor has over it. The solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract ( in IL anyway, but I presume it is common, b…

> The solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract ( in IL anyway, but I presume it is common, because my mom had a similar experience ), I have to give the company a way in every time they desire to look at the panels. I did my own install of a ground mount 6.7kW array. I initially declined to connect to the inverter manufacturer's monitoring, beca…

There are inverters with local only monitoring and control. I have one integrated locally with home assistant. You can also add an external current transformer and monitor the production with that independent of the inverter.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#234

Post by conk »

bluGill wrote: post #224
hamdingers wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NEC doesn't specify GFCI breakers, it merely requires receptacles in certain areas have GFCI protection, and accepts GFCI breakers as one way to provide that. The conventional practice in the US is still to use GFCI receptacles rather than breakers.

Right, but the NEC spec arc fault as well (i've only seen this on breakers). recepticals are cheaper and otherwise just as good.

Because NEC 210.12 requires all devices to be protected. Which means if you have a switch or splice before a plug the only way to protect those is with an AFCI breaker. The only exception is a continuous run from the breaker to an outlet in metal conduit or MC cable. Given how much is romex this effectively forces AFCI branch breakers.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#235

Post by idiotsecant »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #194
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those proactive in a reactive world are often mocked and laughed at I'm going to start calling this a Jehovah's Witness complex. Where amplified, mostly imagined mockery of an incredibly dominant view, at least in group, is used as evidence of that view's righteousness and, by extension, rightness. > prices will not be dropping...Energy grid decentralization is occurring Cost versus resilience. A low-cost grid has…

I think the answer may be more complex than that. I mean, I know you are not wrong. My boss only recently made a crack at how pointless solar energy is in the world of cheap gas. But it is not just cost. It is a level of control the contractor has over it. The solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract ( in IL anyway, but I presume it is common, b…

If you're buying what someone is 'pushing' you already lost. Solar is not very complicated, particularly if you don't care about grid connectivity. Just buy the pieces for a fraction of the cost and do it yourself without putting money in someone else's pocket for the next 20 years.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#236

Post by jamescrowley »

t0mas88 wrote: post #193
cjrp wrote: post #4

The UK previously didn't allow small plug in solar panels (the kind that you just plug in to a mains socket) due to, I believe, safety reasons. This has changed within the last few days https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/solar-roadmap/

There is a real safety issue with plug-in solar panels and plug-in batteries. Things go wrong if other loads are on the same circuit, which is almost unavoidable with a plug-in system. Consider a circuit in a home, designed to carry 16A like a common EU/UK circuit, protected by a 16A breaker. Then plug in solar or a battery that delivers just a small 10A. Now in case some other thing on that circuit draws 26A, the br…

My understanding is that is why they are limiting to 800w (~4A) at least in the UK's BS 7671 Amendment, which they consider well within the designed safety margins.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#237

Post by hapticmonkey »

theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Distributed energy production / storage is the key for resiliency in the future. Every solar farm doesn't need to be China Size - it doesn't even need to be a "farm", just put them on roofs. And don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Yes there are times when solar doesn't produce energy, but there are also times where it OVERproduces.

Rooftop solar is incredibly popular here in Australia. I think it’s something like 33% of houses have it. We also have a great climate for it.

I have solar on my house and am seeing around 50% self sufficiency overall. Of course with this much saturation, the rate you get paid for feeding back to the grid is quickly dropping to zero. So self use is the game now.

The problem is now shifting to home batteries and storage. Because peak power household use times are in the evening when the sun is not shining.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#238

Post by fc417fc802 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #232
fc417fc802 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not have a utility that covers one or a few counties where you live? Here it's some sort of strange public-private partnership scheme with private investment, strictly capped profits, and a few publicly elected officials at the top. I've also lived in places where the local government owned and managed the entire grid themselves, including directly employing the workers. I've also lived in places where the ope…

Here in New Mexico (USA), all power generation and distribution is privatized but theoretically overseen by a Public Regulation Committee. There are some co-operative generation and/or distribution organizations, but these are still private (and very regional in scope). No actual public utilities at all, though many here would like that.

Sure so in that context by county utility I mean the regional provider. In short if it involves hundreds of kilowatts of power and a timescale measured in multiple decades I want a large stable body consisting of professional specialists to manage it. I don't trust an HOA or other gathering of non-expert locals with potentially high turnover with that sort of infrastructure.

Even the battery installation for a large house borders on questionable. That's not a utility closet your average person should be wandering into under any circumstances and it's easy to run up a massive bill in an instant (if you aren't lucky you might simultaneously kill yourself) but at least that's limited to your personal property.

Re: ‘Energy independence feels practical’: Europeans building mini solar farms

#240

Post by KennyBlanken »

hapticmonkey wrote: post #237
theshrike79 wrote: post #2

Distributed energy production / storage is the key for resiliency in the future. Every solar farm doesn't need to be China Size - it doesn't even need to be a "farm", just put them on roofs. And don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Yes there are times when solar doesn't produce energy, but there are also times where it OVERproduces.

Rooftop solar is incredibly popular here in Australia. I think it’s something like 33% of houses have it. We also have a great climate for it. I have solar on my house and am seeing around 50% self sufficiency overall. Of course with this much saturation, the rate you get paid for feeding back to the grid is quickly dropping to zero. So self use is the game now. The problem is now shifting to home batteries and stora…

> We also have a great climate for it.

Back when solar was much, much more expensive this sort of thing mattered. Now the panels have plunged in price so much, you just deploy more panels (cost of install and other central stuff is the same) and/or accept the longer payback period.

Cold climates do better than one might expect because the colder a solar panel is, the better it works.

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