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Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

npr.org

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Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dekken_ wrote: post #26
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> possession itself of that data without a warrant violates the spirit of the 4th ammendment Does it? An 18th-century tavern owner could keep tabs on the comings and goings of their customers. It would have just prompted pushback when they started sharing that list. Possession isn’t the problem. Sharing is.

No, the bar owner has a right know who's in his bar. The local or federal government do not have the right, or need to know the whereabouts of the average law abiding citizen. There is no "free" information, all information has a cost, whether it be acquisition or storage. Currently the people are taxed to oppress themselves. There is no choice not to be taxed, there is no consent.

You've said shat I meant to say more eloquently. That's my point. The bar owner can possess the information about their own bar without problem. The issue is when they share it with others, voluntarily or under coercion.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#82

Post by dekken_ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
dekken_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the bar owner has a right know who's in his bar. The local or federal government do not have the right, or need to know the whereabouts of the average law abiding citizen. There is no "free" information, all information has a cost, whether it be acquisition or storage. Currently the people are taxed to oppress themselves. There is no choice not to be taxed, there is no consent.

You've said shat I meant to say more eloquently. That's my point. The bar owner can possess the information about their own bar without problem. The issue is when they share it with others, voluntarily or under coercion.

No you still don't get it, the bar owner can share the information with whoever he likes.

The government, does not own the country, it's not "their bar".

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#83

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dekken_ wrote: post #82
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've said shat I meant to say more eloquently. That's my point. The bar owner can possess the information about their own bar without problem. The issue is when they share it with others, voluntarily or under coercion.

No you still don't get it, the bar owner can share the information with whoever he likes. The government, does not own the country, it's not "their bar".

> The government, does not own the country, it's not "their bar"

Never mentioned the government. If I shop at a store and the store owner starts selling my information to everyone under the sun, I'm going to keep an eye out for alternatives. I don't mind them collating it. I do when they share it.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#84

Post by kgwxd »

fritzo wrote: post #75
kgwxd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not ironic, unfortunate reality. I'm annoyed npr and 474 use personal data for profit. It should be illegal. I'm terrified the government uses personal data without checks on the use case. Especially since it is illegal, and they just don't care about that. Or there's a loophole, or whatever, and they just don't care how The People will react to them using it, which is just as terrifying.

Wait, is 474 a number or a proper noun?

Whoops, I assumed it was a proper noun the way I read it. Like a company that does data collection or something. Whatever, I'm not gonna bother to look at it again, I'm quitting the internet.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#85

Post by noosphr »

mcsniff wrote: post #61
noosphr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how we stopped drinking lead when they stopped putting lead in our water.

If you want to absolve yourself of personal responsibility, go ahead and blame "them" and "we". You were free to drink lead-free water the entire time, you just didn't care enough to do so.

We also stopped breathing fall out when they stopped doing atmospheric nuclear tests.

If only those lazy 1950s layabouts carries oxygen tanks instead of complaining about cancers.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#87

Post by xorcist »

ethersteeds wrote: post #78
ambicapter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't he also making the point that's a very effective way to triangulate the leaders of an org? That's just going to reinforce the NSA's inclination to do so.

I think the argument is that NSA already knows exactly how valuable metadata is, while the average person significantly underestimates its importance without a concrete demonstration.

The same NSA that publicly states "We kill people over metadata"?

If that's the type of things they say publicly at conferences we can only imagine what a more sensitive comment would look like. How anyone can underestimate the importance of that is beyond me.

Re: Government agencies buy commercial data about Americans in bulk

#88

Post by johnthescott »

ethersteeds wrote: post #78
ambicapter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't he also making the point that's a very effective way to triangulate the leaders of an org? That's just going to reinforce the NSA's inclination to do so.

I think the argument is that NSA already knows exactly how valuable metadata is, while the average person significantly underestimates its importance without a concrete demonstration.

spread a false story in public news and monitor cell call graphs.
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